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Summer League Thread

Elizah Huge said:
I know you’re mad and you’ve lost the argument when you resort to either calling people racist or xenophobic. You have truly become a trash *** poster. I am done talking to you.
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Nice retort because you have nothing other than xenophobia and you dont actually know anything about European competition.
 
Elizah Huge said:
I know you’re mad and you’ve lost the argument when you resort to either calling people racist or xenophobic. You have truly become a trash *** poster. I am done talking to you.
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How can I lose something that doesnt exist? You dont have any argument because you dont actually talk about anything.

All you have is these handful of french prospects from the french league werent good, so that must mean future prospects from the french league also arent good. It's lazy and xenophobic.


I'm plenty wrong about plenty of prospects, but I'm not lazy and I will back things up with actual takes, not just lazy reactionary garbage.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Yeah, a top-7 pick averaging 10/5/2 on 37/10/50 shooting splits is incredible.
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Do you think this is his real shooting ability or do you think those 2 games might just be too small of a sample?

Also... what's your take on his game as a whole, small sample shooting splits aside? How's his defense? How does his athleticism and length project to the league? etc...
 
stitches said:
Do you think this is his real shooting ability or do you think those 2 games might just be too small of a sample?
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It’s been 3 games and considering he shot 1/14 off the dribble this year and 1/15 from mid range in general in his French league coupled with shooting 5/21 from 3 in the playoffs I’d say it’s a problem.
 
Elizah Huge said:
It’s been 3 games and considering he shot 1/14 off the dribble this year and 1/15 from mid range in general in his French league coupled with shooting 5/21 from 3 in the playoffs I’d say it’s a problem.
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I really REALLY don't like limiting samples, especially when the sample we have is already too small. If I want to judge his ability to shoot I'd probably be including everything I can get my hands on. And BTW, for the record I don't think he's a good shooter right now. He's a bit like... Dante coming into the league... maybe even more questionable shooter. And while shooting is indeed very important in the modern day NBA, there are other ways for prospects to make themselves useful early. That's why I added the additional questions to my response above ...

... what's your take on his game as a whole, small sample shooting splits aside? How's his defense? How does his athleticism and length project to the league? etc...
 
Elizah Huge said:
There have been multiple players drafted from that league in the first round and lottery in the last decade and not a single one of them have panned out. Multiple of those guys were better prospects or similar prospects as well. All of them have been massive busts. It should absolutely be considered unless you are just a one of a kind talent like Wemby.
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The earlier French generation did not guarantee success for the succeeding generation. So why should the recent generation's failures automatically mean failure for future players? Truthfully, all of these players are independent of one another. Wemby is his own player, Bilal is his own player. The difference is in their talent and not the league they play in. This is true for all players. If you tell me a prospect came from the French League, you have pretty much told me nothing. I think it's fair to contextualize Bilal's production compared to previous prospects, but to simply pass/fail guys on the basis of coming from a certain league is really lazy. I'm not going to say a random college prospect is certain to fail because a player who plays a different position on a different team with different numbers failed. It would be akin to saying Keyonte is prone to failure because Josh Jackson failed. Josh Jackson has got nothing to do with Keyonte even though they both played Big 12 basketball. If you want to connect these French guys who failed to Bilal, you've got to do better than simply making the connection that they are French.

Specifically with Bilal, I don't think anyone was really looking at his production as the main reason why he's a lottery pick. He had no senior level production when I first thought he was a lottery pick. You simply do not get athletes who can move like him outside of the lottery. Throughout the draft prospect everyone against Bilal kept hammering in on his numbers, and lack thereof, but I kept telling everyone he's going to be drafted high. It's not the production that made him a lottery pick so if you're hyper focused on that you're missing the boat.

He's a polarizing prospect and that's fine. Like I said before, whether you liked him or hated him before the draft his SL performance hasn't done much to change opinions. The outstanding physical tools are out in full display as well as his rawness. Regardless of how you balanced those two competing things, there hasn't been much reason to shift opinion. I don't think people who love Anthony Black are freaking out over him shooting 1/4 from 3 and 4/9 from the line. We knew this about him already. He's showcasing the things we liked and didn't like about him predraft.
 
stitches said:
I really REALLY don't like limiting samples, especially when the sample we have is already too small. If I want to judge his ability to shoot I'd probably be including everything I can get my hands on. And BTW, for the record I don't think he's a good shooter right now. He's a bit like... Dante coming into the league... maybe even more questionable shooter. And while shooting is indeed very important in the modern day NBA, there are other ways for prospects to make themselves useful early. That's why I added the additional questions to my response above ...

... what's your take on his game as a whole, small sample shooting splits aside? How's his defense? How does his athleticism and length project to the league? etc...
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If you want to judge his ability to shoot, you should probably give him 2-3 years and see where he's at. He's not a terrible shooter, but he isnt consistent yet. it's going to take time. Judge the bones of what he does and the playmaking (on both end) he is flashing. He's a special special talent.
 
stitches said:
Also... what's your take on his game as a whole, small sample shooting splits aside? How's his defense? How does his athleticism and length project to the league? etc...
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Watching him up close in person he was completely invisible at times on the court. Kids that were there couldn’t even figure who was the top-7 pick and who wasn’t when he was playing. He’s super long and that helps him defensively. I think he has a lot of potential on the defensive end. He showed a few flashes playmaking but he was also out of control on drives as well. Gun to my head I would absolutely say he will be the worst player out of the top-10 players drafted.
 
KqWIN said:
The earlier French generation did not guarantee success for the succeeding generation. So why should the recent generation's failures automatically mean failure for future players? Truthfully, all of these players are independent of one another. Wemby is his own player, Bilal is his own player. The difference is in their talent and not the league they play in. This is true for all players. If you tell me a prospect came from the French League, you have pretty much told me nothing. I think it's fair to contextualize Bilal's production compared to previous prospects, but to simply pass/fail guys on the basis of coming from a certain league is really lazy. I'm not going to say a random college prospect is certain to fail because a player who plays a different position on a different team with different numbers failed. It would be akin to saying Keyonte is prone to failure because Josh Jackson failed. Josh Jackson has got nothing to do with Keyonte even though they both played Big 12 basketball. If you want to connect these French guys who failed to Bilal, you've got to do better than simply making the connection that they are French.

Specifically with Bilal, I don't think anyone was really looking at his production as the main reason why he's a lottery pick. He had no senior level production when I first thought he was a lottery pick. You simply do not get athletes who can move like him outside of the lottery. Throughout the draft prospect everyone against Bilal kept hammering in on his numbers, and lack thereof, but I kept telling everyone he's going to be drafted high. It's not the production that made him a lottery pick so if you're hyper focused on that you're missing the boat.

He's a polarizing prospect and that's fine. Like I said before, whether you liked him or hated him before the draft his SL performance hasn't done much to change opinions. The outstanding physical tools are out in full display as well as his rawness. Regardless of how you balanced those two competing things, there hasn't been much reason to shift opinion. I don't think people who love Anthony Black are freaking out over him shooting 1/4 from 3 and 4/9 from the line. We knew this about him already. He's showcasing the things we liked and didn't like about him predraft.
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I am not saying because he played in the French league he is automatically going to be a bust. It is absolutely something I would consider though. He would have to be the exception to that for me to feel comfortable about drafting him that high. I just don’t see him as being that special of a talent.
 
Another big thing you got to factor with Bilal is how rapidly the guy has improved this past year.

Crazy to me that some people hold that against him for some reason.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
If you want to judge his ability to shoot, you should probably give him 2-3 years and see where he's at. He's not a terrible shooter, but he isnt consistent yet. it's going to take time. Judge the bones of what he does and the playmaking (on both end) he is flashing. He's a special special talent.
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Agreed... there was some research saying you need 700-800 attempts to have a somewhat reliable ball-park picture of how a player's shooting will be in the league. And here we are talking about like... 15 shots. That's not serious. That's why with a lot of prospects I'm using their FT% as another indicator for shooting ability. I'm not sure he's a special talent, but I wouldn't knock his projection to the league solely on his shooting splits. I feel like in SL specifically, the eye test is probably more reliable predictor of talent. That's kind of why I am a bit more reserved on Keyonte than most seem to be. IMO with his current level of defense he's showing in SL Hardy won't even play him as a regular part of the rotation. He's not playable IMO. Again... IF this is how he's going to defend.
 
stitches said:
Agreed... there was some research saying you need 700-800 attempts to have a somewhat reliable ball-park picture of how his shooting will be in the league. And here we are talking about like... 15 shots. That's not serious. I'm not sure he's a special talent, but I wouldn't knock his projection to the league solely on his shooting splits. I feel like in SL specifically, the eye test is probably more reliable predictor of talent. That's kind of why I am a bit more reserved on Keyonte than most seem to be. IMO with his current level of defense he's showing in SL Hardy won't even play him as a regular part of the rotation. He's not playable IMO. Again... IF this is how he's going to defend.
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Yeah, cuz you actually watch ball. Elizah just box score watches and tries to draw conclusions from that.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Crazy that we are declaring a dude who nearly had a 5x5 in a SL game bad as an 18 year old. Just mind blowing stuff. The bias is unreal.
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Saint Cy of JFC said:
You cant sit here and honestly call yourself a serious person and throw out basic box scores when judging SL.
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This is pretty hilarious. I didn’t know that 2 steals and 3 blocks was nearly a 5x5 game either.
 
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