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The Missing Piece

Doesn't seem so risky to me. He's already put up 4 straight seasons of 15+ PER basketball. He may not be "the guy", but no way is he going to flop either.
Having a PER of 15 literally is league average. Not sure how that's a selling point.

The "crushing blow" is what it takes to get him (roster changes, loss of picks) and how much money he'd cost if he gets you net production that is slightly better than average.

PER also does a pathetic job of measuring defensive impact which is central to this whole discussion.
 
Doesn't seem so risky to me. He's already put up 4 straight seasons of 15+ PER basketball. He may not be "the guy", but no way is he going to flop either.

He's missed two of those seasons, PER doesn't talk about defense and is a really overrated stat. Enes Kanter has a PER around 24 for the last few years and no one would want him back or talks about him as the missing piece.
 
Having a PER of 15 literally is league average. Not sure how that's a selling point.

The "crushing blow" is what it takes to get him (roster changes, loss of picks) and how much money he'd cost if he gets you net production that is slightly better than average.

If it is Favs in a sign and trade for Jabari and the contract is in the 12-15M range for 3 years I'm down... 4 years I'm worried. The issue is I think he gets more than that (maybe much more... Sacramento sitting out there and could get to a spot where they have money). One knee injury and he is untradeable.
 
Like if we are taking a risk on a guy I want there to be upside. Tyreke on a MLE type deal could be a huge get if last season's production is real. Jabari gets somewhere in between 15-20M per year and at best will live up to that contract... at worst he is a millstone.
 
[QUOTE="cowhide, post: 1598072, member: 330

Kristaps Porzingis - He is not leaving NYC.[/QUOTE]
Not leaving, but imagine him playing along side Gobert, nasty!!
 
Having a PER of 15 literally is league average. Not sure how that's a selling point.

The "crushing blow" is what it takes to get him (roster changes, loss of picks) and how much money he'd cost if he gets you net production that is slightly better than average...

I know you all hate PER, but it is just my shorthand for production. If he can just continue his current production, then he will at least adequately replace whoever they lose to fit him in. Assuming he doesn't suffer another catastrophic injury, if that is the baseline, then it doesn't seem so risky. If he improves, then it is obviously a big win. Among players it seems like the Jazz can realistically get, it seems like a pretty good bet to me.
 
He's missed two of those seasons, PER doesn't talk about defense and is a really overrated stat. Enes Kanter has a PER around 24 for the last few years and no one would want him back or talks about him as the missing piece.

Don't the Jazz need some offensive production? And, is someone arguing that Parker is as bad as Kanter was on defense? Really, I don't know.
 
Having a PER of 15 literally is league average. Not sure how that's a selling point...

He's only 23 and only played 5,000 minutes. Hayward put up similar numbers his first 4 seasons. Anyway, I'm not saying that Parker is "the missing piece". Just mildly disputing the notion that he would be a big risk.
 
The offense is centered around 3 point shooting. Its no coincidence that the team started playing better when rubio started knocking down his wide open 3s. To me I really want to get terry rosier in a trade from Boston. This kid has improved so much and is about ready to explode as a player. I also really want to pry Mirotic from the Pelicans. Both will require trades. Now that we know where our 1st round pick will fall i would trade that for Mirotic and i would try to package some of the expirings and second round picks for rozier. Boston will need cap room and they have a irving and smart to play point.
 
The offense is centered around 3 point shooting. Its no coincidence that the team started playing better when rubio started knocking down his wide open 3s. To me I really want to get terry rosier in a trade from Boston. This kid has improved so much and is about ready to explode as a player. I also really want to pry Mirotic from the Pelicans. Both will require trades. Now that we know where our 1st round pick will fall i would trade that for Mirotic and i would try to package some of the expirings and second round picks for rozier. Boston will need cap room and they have a irving and smart to play point.

I like Terry a lot... so does Danny Ainge. If they keep Smart, then Terry will be available.

Niko can be had if NO signs Boogie. Maybe not this season, but certainly next offseason. They will be in cap hell and can’t afford 15-20M on a backup 4/5. Boogie and AD are said to be close and NO has nothing on the wing. They will need to allocate resources there.

I could see NO risking it and doing a sign and trade for OP jr. AD is eligible for the mega supermax extension and if he declines it next year they need to trade him. I think he may sign it whether they keep Boogie or not if they are still winning. It is like 5/200M and no one has turned it down yet.
 
?

moot point:
  1. open to discussion or debate; debatable; doubtful: Whether that was the cause of their troubles is a moot point.
  2. of little or no practical value, meaning, or relevance; purely academic:

moot:
  1. subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty, and typically not admitting of a final decision.
    "whether the temperature rise was mainly due to the greenhouse effect was a moot point"
    synonyms: debatable, open to discussion/question, arguable, questionable, at issue, open to doubt, disputable, controversial, contentious, disputed, unresolved, unsettled, up in the air
    "a moot point"



At least one of us learned what the correct definition is though, right?

It didn't come across that way to me but it is The Moot Point for me right now. This team is stacked everywhere and some players who could start elsewhere rarely touch the court.

I don't see how you can upgrade from Jerebko, Epke, Burks, and especially not Thabo. Royce and Burks have been erratic but they both kept Utah in playoff games despite lack of PT.

If the Jazz can't land either PG or Kawhi they need to upgrade Favors/Neto/Dante/Jerebko/Epke/Burks.

We need our Chauncey and our Rasheed. We already have our Prince (Joe) and our Wallace+++ (Rudy), and Mitchell might as well count as Hamilton. Move Joe to the Memo 3 pt role and fill the other 3 spots?

Moot point.
 
He's only 23 and only played 5,000 minutes. Hayward put up similar numbers his first 4 seasons. Anyway, I'm not saying that Parker is "the missing piece". Just mildly disputing the notion that he would be a big risk.

The biggest risk is health... and it is significant with him. The second big risk is that he is bad on defense... maybe not Kanter bad but he’s Carmelo bad for sure.

His shot is inconsistent and I worry he’s a guy that holds the ball too long... kinda like Melo. I’m just not sure it’s an amazing fit.

If he was healthy and on a good deal it’s a risk worth taking... I think he gets paid and I can’t think of many guys that were risks like him that paid off... I don’t think we need to take that big of a swing.

I like Gordon more, though he could be kinda Harrison Barnesy, because the floor is still really good and the ceiling seems higher. He is less gettable though.

The other thing to realize is there will be guys signed this offseason that become available later when teams realize they aren’t good and don’t want to pay what they signed the guy for... Blake Griffin... Gallinari... that will be available later at a discount.

Poke around for a good deal, but then be patient is all I’m saying. We don’t need to close our eyes and swing for the fences yet.
 
Tobias Harris is really the only player that satisfies most of those criteria, frankly.

--

With our roster as it currently stands, we are third in the western conference-- after Golden State and Houston. Keep in mind, we stole a game in Houston with both Rubio and Sefalosha out-- series likely at least went 6, perhaps even 7 with a fully healthy Jazz roster.

We need to understand what our strengths were, where we got exposed, and what it will take to make the next step.

Things that stood out to me from these playoffs--

i) defensively I thought we were fine against Houston, especially in the half-court. If there was games we got blown apart, it was generally ****** offence leading to Houston attacking before we could back-track. They had multiple games where they looked dreadful shooting from 3 point land. It took a playoff career-high from Chris Paul to eke out past the jazz @ houston
ii) we *could not* punish Houston for hiding small players on Rudy-- passes that would make it to him were either not on target, late, or he botched them. To me, this was the kicker-- and this is where Rubio's absence was most felt (along with Dante's later in the series). Rudy is, at times, an extremely potent offensive weapon who draws traffic, and can kick it open to the corners when he does-- unfortunately, in the series we just watched, Rudy was rendered ineffective by thr trio fo Tucker, Paul, and Capela.
iii) The presence of Favors was key to advancing past OKC-- meanwhile, both Golden State and Houston run a list of shorter stretch-4s that render Derrick's advantages fairly ineffective. Additionally, at this point Derrick Favors is not a consistent three-point threat (despite his two threes against OKC in Game 2, I believe).
iv) to go past Houston or Golden State, we need to go past the two most difficult pick-and-roll coverages arguably in the entire NBA. If we sign Jabari, we simply cannot play him in crunch-time minutes because he will be exposed. Don't you remember how teams would search out Kanter in these PnRs when they played against us? Similarly, we would seek out James Harden and Carmelo Anthony in these playoffs-- mind you, James Harden is formidable and he had Capela behind him so that's why Donovan wasn't averaging 30 through the series.

So, to me, a few questions remain--

i) if we do not retain Favors, does this cripple our switchability on defence, as well as our ability to move past teams like POR, NOL, and OKC?
ii) if we do retain Favors, does that clog the pain and render Rudy's ability to impose an offensive presence ineffective?
iii) if we pick up a stretch 4 to replace Rudy, and provide another release valve on offence, will we be able to play this player in crunch-time or will the minutes be allocated to the likes of Jae Crowder? Can we afford to pay 20mil/yr to a player who we can't play in crunch-time?


At times like these, it helps to be able to have spreadsheets and statistically analyze our players vs players around the league, and see how they best fit with us. I think not enough attention is being paid to the potential of Rubio being a third key cog in our offence, nor is the presence of Derrick Favors being recognized as a key component to our defence (Crowder can't guard the 4 30 minutes a game, 82 games a year). If Tobias Harris mocks out as a league average defender, then I think you need to really throw an unprotected first and Jones Jerebko or something. Some sort of package that still retains our top 8 players. Same holds true for Jabari-- if our analysis overwhelmingly shows confidence that he can provide league average defence, we should look into him.
 
He's a poor man's Blake Griffin, who is no piece to build around. They're both reasonably efficient on offense, but reasonably isn't what this team needs at high price tag value. The fit isn't good either.
And his defense is just so bad. And he is injury prone. We just need to move past Parker and look at people that would actually help us.
 
And his defense is just so bad. And he is injury prone. We just need to move past Parker and look at people that would actually help us.

I'm very, very mildly torn on this after Popovich has squeezed blood out of a LMA turnip. He's still just an above pay scorer at 57 ts% but his on/off differential is solid. Can the right fit change a Blake (+1 ortg/drtg) or a Jabari -5 or Carmello -5? I doubt it.

No point in wasting cap space.
 
On draft night we are one of two teams (Dallas is the other) that can offer $15.5M in immediate cap relief with our unguaranteed guys. I think we have to use that asset if a deal to acquire a first comes along. Maybe we don't have to use all of it (would love to keep Thabo). As soon as July 1st rolls around that asset dries up.

Getting another first helps us grease the wheels to get the missing piece in a trade or another chance to land that guy in the draft. I trust DL can find more Jonas, Udoh, Thabo bargain FAs. I want TB to play the backup 5 minutes anyway and we can acquire an adequate backup center if we really need to.

Washington, Denver, and maybe Phoenix all seem like they might want salary relief or in Phoenix's case more cap space to chase Capela, Gordon, or others.
 
I think Utah should reach out to every vet pg for the vet minimum plus and offer half days off on the road and home, based on injury.

Let Exum and Neto go will more than pay for a DWill-Rondo combo. Barrea is still getting it done. Maybe Dallas would trade him for a 2nd as they begin their rebuild. All those would be a great fit here imo. (Praying Exum improves outside and continues his inside game vs HOU).
 
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