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Trade idea for Horford

Handlogten's Heros said:
I think TB and Niang are the weakest rotation links... but yeah Conley replacing Mudiay when/if he's healthy.

I also think they are super proud of Mudiay and clearly fond of the guy... so I'm not sure if they would move him to "do the right thing" or cleave to him as a pet project. I think there are teams he could help but I'm fine keeping him on the shelf as an injury insurance policy.
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Handlogten's Heros said:
I think TB and Niang are the weakest rotation links... but yeah Conley replacing Mudiay when/if he's healthy.

I also think they are super proud of Mudiay and clearly fond of the guy... so I'm not sure if they would move him to "do the right thing" or cleave to him as a pet project. I think there are teams he could help but I'm fine keeping him on the shelf as an injury insurance policy.
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I wouldn’t group Niang and TB together like that. TB is the far weaker link of the two. The difference matters.

if mudiay is playing this well when Conley returns, they’ll find minutes for him.
 
infection said:
I think some context is warranted regarding Conley. Yes, he's small. However, try to remember back to the beginning of last month. Conley has been considered a problem because he's not hitting his shots and he looks small out there. Overall, we were playing heavy iso-ball. Not only was Conley not looking good, but our bench sucked, Joe looked terrible... remember people continuing to complain about his extension and how he looked completely cooked? Mitchell was throwing up tons of floaters and appeared to have regressed after having a good first 5-10 games of the season. Rudy wasn't getting the ball and his rebounding and scoring numbers were down. Also, we were playing a harder schedule.

Fast forward to now. There are a lot of variables that contribute to this. One is that now we're playing very easy teams. The second is that we're moving the ball more. The third is that Joe no longer looks like hot trash and Rudy has really stepped up. We've added Clarkson and got rid of Green. A couple weeks ago Quin was commenting on the Clippers win and he brought it back to the 40 point blow out or whatever it was. He said that those are two bookends, and that both of those teams are us. This is still true. That team that was looking absolutely awful on that road trip is largely the same team. We've fixed a few problems, but in terms of personnel, we're exactly the same except subbing Green for Clarkson. Because it's out of sight and out of mind, we're pretending we're a bit better than we are. And because we like to have easy answers and easy conclusions to point to that make sense and are wrapped up in a pretty bow, we look at Conley because his exit from the lineup correlates with this.

I'm not buying it. First, I'm not buying that we were quite as bad as we thought a month ago, and second I'm not buying that we're quite as good as perhaps we may think right now. Third is that I think what really makes us better is getting Conley back and integrated. We've been able to beat some much easier competition to the point that some of our weaknesses haven't been exposed, but believe me those weaknesses are there and nobody is going to like the way it feels if and when they get exposed and exploited, but Conley's return patches up a lot of them as we get going down the stretch. We need a legitimate defensive option off the bench at the 5, though, even if it's just 10 minutes. Even if that's just Bogut. It makes too much sense. If it doesn't make sense to anyone now, it will come April.
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What are our weaknesses? And how does a healthy and integrated Conley address them?
 
NAOS said:
I wouldn’t group Niang and TB together like that. TB is the far weaker link of the two. The difference matters.

if mudiay is playing this well when Conley returns, they’ll find minutes for him.
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I want to believe the first part of that, but the on/off numbers for my guy Niang are still sooooo bad... might just be lingering data from his time with Jeff and Ed. You are probably right that TB has a bigger negative effect on the defense because of his position. I think TB can improve his deficiencies with experience... though some guys just commit dumb fouls their whole career.

I think Niang is kind of a home run swing type player from the bench... will have nights where he goes 3/5 or 4/5 from three and swings a game... Bradley is just average/predictable. I've really warmed up to him... he plays his *** off and is really trying... just has to figure out how to be a factor at the rim without picking up a foul every time. I felt kind of bad for him last night... he was getting the Exum soft touch fouls that they could literally call on any play if they wanted.

Mudiay will get sporadic minutes with injuries and foul trouble, but there just aren't the minutes there if Conley and everyone is healthy. Maybe like the 4 minutes a night Tucker is getting? It's the nba and injuries happen so he will get time here and there either way I guess.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I don’t believe he addresses a single weakness of this team. Even if he’s balling.
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He doesn't. He becomes very redundant with no good slot to fill. Maybe primary backup ball handler, but that's not the role for a 30 mill PG. Taking touches away from DM and/or Ingles? How exactly would that help us? No clue. He is truly right now the odd man out. Just don't see it.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I want to believe the first part of that, but the on/off numbers for my guy Niang are still sooooo bad... might just be lingering data from his time with Jeff and Ed. You are probably right that TB has a bigger negative effect on the defense because of his position. I think TB can improve his deficiencies with experience... though some guys just commit dumb fouls their whole career.

I think Niang is kind of a home run swing type player from the bench... will have nights where he goes 3/5 or 4/5 from three and swings a game... Bradley is just average/predictable. I've really warmed up to him... he plays his *** off and is really trying... just has to figure out how to be a factor at the rim without picking up a foul every time. I felt kind of bad for him last night... he was getting the Exum soft touch fouls that they could literally call on any play if they wanted.

Mudiay will get sporadic minutes with injuries and foul trouble, but there just aren't the minutes there if Conley and everyone is healthy. Maybe like the 4 minutes a night Tucker is getting? It's the nba and injuries happen so he will get time here and there either way I guess.
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Good post. I believe as TB gets more integrated and a few more games under his belt the fouling will curtail a little. He's a backup and serviceable on offense in the pnr. Plus he gets an occasional put back or offensive rebound. Can't ask much more of him there, just tighten his defense. He'll never be a big minute guy but is what he his and I think it can work if his D improves and Rudy can stay healthy.
 
LogGrad98 said:
He doesn't. He becomes very redundant with no good slot to fill. Maybe primary backup ball handler, but that's not the role for a 30 mill PG. Taking touches away from DM and/or Ingles? How exactly would that help us? No clue. He is truly right now the odd man out. Just don't see it.
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Also, Clarkson and Mudiay are doing a fine job. It’s no longer a crater, at least not currently.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I don’t believe he addresses a single weakness of this team. Even if he’s balling.
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That's a lie. This team desperately needs another high level scoring ball-handler. Bogey is over-taxed in games where he has to matchup against other high profile players/defenders.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
That's a lie. This team desperately needs another high level scoring ball-handler. Bogey is over-taxed in games where he has to matchup against other high profile players/defenders.
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This team looks kinda like **** when it has another high-level scoring ball-handler so I’m going to strongly disagree and add that there are other more pressing issues.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Augustin, Aminu, and Gordon?
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Augustin kills us and they won’t give him to us, Aminu is out for the year, and Gordon ****ing sucks. He’d be the most hated player on JFC after people got a whiff of what his **** smells like.
 
The problem with Conley is he played with no other decent wings in Memphis. He was so ball dominant as a result that I’m not sure he knows how to be a team player so to speak. He is used to the ball being in his hands too damn much and it’s likely too late to teach that old a dog new tricks.
 
So people think that adding more depth, especially a person of Conley's talent somehow makes us worse? I understand we have other needs but his depth, leadership, ability to score and pass are only going to move the needle towards being better.

His main issue are health and integration. He's still extremely valuable if he can stay healthy.
 
JazzyFresh said:
So people think that adding more depth, especially a person of Conley's talent somehow makes us worse? I understand we have other needs but his depth, leadership, ability to score and pass are only going to move the needle towards being better.

His main issue are health and integration. He's still extremely valuable if he can stay healthy.
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The concern is he is duplicitous but not as good as other options, and that he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Also that he there are legitimate defensive issues, especially when he's duplicitous.

That's not even entertaining the notion that he might not actually be that good.
 
NUMBERICA said:
The concern is he is duplicitous but not as good as other options, and that he needs the ball in his hands to be effective. Also that he there are legitimate defensive issues, especially when he's duplicitous.

That's not even entertaining the notion that he might not actually be that good.
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I say give it time. The guy had a few spurts where he absolutely went off and helped this team win. He also struggled a lot. Thing is, he wasn't the only one who wasn't finding their groove, it was the entire team. People tend to completely look past that and think it was all him. Hell Ingles looked like he may have completely lost it for a long while but look at him now. This team is still finding it's groove each game.

As far as him just not being any good, I don't buy it. I attribute his struggles to being on a brand new team, with brand new schemes, and a brand new role. Look at Bogey, sure he's fit in a lot better but he's just barely starting to understand where he fits in and when he should drive or take a mid-range jumper. He wasn't doing that until recently. Look at Mudiay. Niang.

His main problem has been his damn hammy. Would this team win 7 straight if he was in? I dunno, but come March and April he will be a key piece if he can find his health.
 
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