Trade idea for Horford

[NUMBERICA]

How can he have poor shot selection if he shoots 49% from the field?

He doesn't have the ideal shot chart, but for what he has to work with his selection of shots is excellent.

Well for starters, he’s improved his game substantially.

But yeah, you’re going to have a hard time convincing me that fade-away 12-15 footers are good shots. He’s been Nash-dribbling more, moving the ball more, spotting up in the corners better, generally demonstrating a better grasp of the offense, and showing more patience since early in the season.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Isn’t Horford making near max money? And if it puts Ingles on the bench, no thanks.

It would put Royce on the bench.

 

[cowhide]

NO, his contract is horrible. Horford is declining.

 

[infection]

I'm not fully bought into Mudiay, but I do like how he plays. I really have unlimited confidence in Mudiay shooting the ball from 10 to 15 feet though. He's like Chris Paul Junior in that range right now.

Yeah, I’ve thought of Chris Paul and, honestly, I can’t recall any point he’s missed one of those shots. Has he? That said, still the weakest rotational link and will have minutes cut with Conley return.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah, I’ve thought of Chris Paul and, honestly, I can’t recall any point he’s missed one of those shots. Has he? That said, still the weakest rotational link and will have minutes cut with Conley return.

I think TB and Niang are the weakest rotation links... but yeah Conley replacing Mudiay when/if he's healthy.

I also think they are super proud of Mudiay and clearly fond of the guy... so I'm not sure if they would move him to "do the right thing" or cleave to him as a pet project. I think there are teams he could help but I'm fine keeping him on the shelf as an injury insurance policy.

 

[infection]

I think TB and Niang are the weakest rotation links... but yeah Conley replacing Mudiay when/if he's healthy.

I also think they are super proud of Mudiay and clearly fond of the guy... so I'm not sure if they would move him to "do the right thing" or cleave to him as a pet project. I think there are teams he could help but I'm fine keeping him on the shelf as an injury insurance policy.

This is true. Maybe I should say he’s the weakest rotation link whose minutes can be cut.

 

[NUMBERICA]

The more I have time to think about Conley and this roster the more doubtful I am. Swapping Conley for a big - even if that makes us too big - is probably preferable to being too small, which is exactly what he does in the context here. Mudiay has earned a spot in the rotation and he will either be nixed when Conley returns, or Niang will either go out of the rotation or become the backup 5. Either way, the cascade-effect of shoe-horning Conley into something that’s working very well might actually drop our ceiling as a team. Playing him takes Royce out of the starting lineup and he is both our second-best rebounder, most versatile defensive player, and most unselfish player. We replace those attributes with supposed strengths of Conley that we don’t need, and lose the things that we are already lacking as it is.

I don’t know, I think Horford makes the team better. I think it raises both our floor and our ceiling. Even if he’s declining. Even if the contract is bad. Even if the fit isn’t perfect. I think the fit is better than Mike’s.

I hope this post gets quoted in four or five months and I get flamed because I was so wrong that the Jazz are playing in June. But I really don’t think Mike and his 12 PER makes us better, at least not against the teams we should be worried about (i.e. The Lakers who have simply spanked us).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The more I have time to think about Conley and this roster the more doubtful I am. Swapping Conley for a big - even if that makes us too big - is probably preferable to being too small, which is exactly what he does in the context here. Mudiay has earned a spot in the rotation and he will either be nixed when Conley returns, or Niang will either go out of the rotation or become the backup 5. Either way, the cascade-effect of shoe-horning Conley into something that’s working very well might actually drop our ceiling as a team. Playing him takes Royce out of the starting lineup and he is both our second-best rebounder, most versatile defensive player, and most unselfish player. We replace those attributes with supposed strengths of Conley that we don’t need, and lose the things that we are already lacking as it is.

I don’t know, I think Horford makes the team better. I think it raises both our floor and our ceiling. Even if he’s declining. Even if the contract is bad. Even if the fit isn’t perfect. I think the fit is better than Mike’s.

I hope this post gets quoted in four or five months and I get flamed because I was so wrong that the Jazz are playing in June. But I really don’t think Mike and his 12 PER makes us better, at least not against bigger teams and/or teams with more rounded rosters.

I kind of just posted about Mike and this type of thing in the Conley Conundrum thread... the starting lineup is working at an insane level...

I'm not sure if you move Conley getting Horford is the best case scenario... I think its probably overkill... we might be better off getting a couple rotation pieces and more salary flexibility.

The best version of the current team includes a fully functional balling Conley... but we will lose some good stuff with Joe and Royce... will be interesting.

Al has had some knee injuries recently and his production is down... would worry me... not like Conley is healthy right now, but still.

 

[nateboz]

The trade for Al wouldn't ever happen. The Conley contract end date is in line for Rudy and Donnovans new contracts.
Conley is worth about 25% of what he's being paid, the trade was really bad and now that's where his value lies. In his contract expiring.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Shad]

Horford is extremely overrated imo

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Well for starters, he’s improved his game substantially.

But yeah, you’re going to have a hard time convincing me that fade-away 12-15 footers are good shots. He’s been Nash-dribbling more, moving the ball more, spotting up in the corners better, generally demonstrating a better grasp of the offense, and showing more patience since early in the season.

If you make them they are

 

[NUMBERICA]

If you make them they are

We aren't going to agree that any shot that goes in is a good shot.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I kind of just posted about Mike and this type of thing in the Conley Conundrum thread... the starting lineup is working at an insane level...

I'm not sure if you move Conley getting Horford is the best case scenario... I think its probably overkill... we might be better off getting a couple rotation pieces and more salary flexibility.

The best version of the current team includes a fully functional balling Conley... but we will lose some good stuff with Joe and Royce... will be interesting.

Al has had some knee injuries recently and his production is down... would worry me... not like Conley is healthy right now, but still.

Sure.

For what it's worth, Conley is producing much worse than Horford is. Plus all the other fit stuff.

 

[infection]

I think some context is warranted regarding Conley. Yes, he's small. However, try to remember back to the beginning of last month. Conley has been considered a problem because he's not hitting his shots and he looks small out there. Overall, we were playing heavy iso-ball. Not only was Conley not looking good, but our bench sucked, Joe looked terrible... remember people continuing to complain about his extension and how he looked completely cooked? Mitchell was throwing up tons of floaters and appeared to have regressed after having a good first 5-10 games of the season. Rudy wasn't getting the ball and his rebounding and scoring numbers were down. Also, we were playing a harder schedule.

Fast forward to now. There are a lot of variables that contribute to this. One is that now we're playing very easy teams. The second is that we're moving the ball more. The third is that Joe no longer looks like hot trash and Rudy has really stepped up. We've added Clarkson and got rid of Green. A couple weeks ago Quin was commenting on the Clippers win and he brought it back to the 40 point blow out or whatever it was. He said that those are two bookends, and that both of those teams are us. This is still true. That team that was looking absolutely awful on that road trip is largely the same team. We've fixed a few problems, but in terms of personnel, we're exactly the same except subbing Green for Clarkson. Because it's out of sight and out of mind, we're pretending we're a bit better than we are. And because we like to have easy answers and easy conclusions to point to that make sense and are wrapped up in a pretty bow, we look at Conley because his exit from the lineup correlates with this.

I'm not buying it. First, I'm not buying that we were quite as bad as we thought a month ago, and second I'm not buying that we're quite as good as perhaps we may think right now. Third is that I think what really makes us better is getting Conley back and integrated. We've been able to beat some much easier competition to the point that some of our weaknesses haven't been exposed, but believe me those weaknesses are there and nobody is going to like the way it feels if and when they get exposed and exploited, but Conley's return patches up a lot of them as we get going down the stretch. We need a legitimate defensive option off the bench at the 5, though, even if it's just 10 minutes. Even if that's just Bogut. It makes too much sense. If it doesn't make sense to anyone now, it will come April.

 

[Miggs]

Isn’t Horford making near max money? And if it puts Ingles on the bench, no thanks.

This thread is antiquated.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We aren't going to agree that any shot that goes in is a good shot.

If the sample size is there...

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I can't find any new shot charts off my phone, but Mudiay has a 61% efg on all pull-up jumpers

 

[Eminence]

I can't find any new shot charts off my phone, but Mudiay has a 61% efg on all pull-up jumpers

Mudiay's been pretty damn good in the midrange both this season and last (hovering around 50% from 10ft to the 3pt line). Not a development I really anticipated, but welcome.

Obviously he has plenty of other areas to work on, but yeah, he's pretty much elite from the midrange.

 

[zyzz]

Well, if anyone thought we were gonna trade for Horford for some reason, it's probably at 0.0001% now

 

[NAOS]

Well for starters, he’s improved his game substantially.

But yeah, you’re going to have a hard time convincing me that fade-away 12-15 footers are good shots. He’s been Nash-dribbling more, moving the ball more, spotting up in the corners better, generally demonstrating a better grasp of the offense, and showing more patience since early in the season.

This is all true. And it’s happened in 2.5 months, which is great. The value of Mudiay’s improvement goes way beyond Mudiay himself. Which is better than great.

But, frrreal, complaints about Mudiay sound kind of hollow right now. Maybe he reverts back into something else, but until then....