What's new
By:
Filters

Vitriolic Rhetoric in Wisconsin

SaltyDawg said:
Apple started outsourcing in mid/late 2006, and continued outsourcing more and more over the next couple years. The first major product they released during that time was the iPhone in June of 2007 for $521.49. The Verizon iPhone they just released is $749.99. I don't see how that is cheaper. Better, sure- which it should be since it's using technology from 3 years later. But it isn't any cheaper.

There are plenty of examples of companies outsourcing to save money only to see the execs get huge raises/bonuses. There are also plenty of examples of unions taking pay cuts and benefit cuts only to see the execs get huge raises/bonuses. It's not an isolated case at all. I would bet it happens more often than not.
Click to expand...

The tiny picture sure looks bad, doesn't it?

Why did you pick iphone instead of ipod?

Will Apple have this edge forever? Will no business minded person see the high margins as an opportunity?

Are any of those huge executive bonuses spent into the economy?

How widely held is stock in Apple? Do no pensions or 401k's benefit from the increased margins?

Did the current account deficit mean more foreign investment into America created jobs elsewhere?

Have US exports lowered because of all those outsourced jobs presumably leading to higher imports? Or did US workers transition into higher skilled jobs and make more in the remaining factories?

SaltyDawg said:
I still think an honest days work should merit a living wage and future retirement though. If a decent blue collar job is no longer good enough to live the American dream then all hope is lost.
Click to expand...

What are you offering to personally give up to assure every burger flipper earns a "living wage"?

Last time I checked, the healthcare industry was expanding rapidly. Are those not blue collar jobs?
 
franklin said:
Wrong. Standard of living gains require productivity gains. On the other hand, economic growth can be achieved through maximization absent productivity gains. Short term growth, or even long term growth without a living increase, requires no more than maximizing capacity utilization and population growth.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I don't see how this is a product of wage, though. There were wages long before there was persistent widespread economic growth (certainly on a per capita basis).
 
Surely said:
I think one thing being overlooked here is the unions in the private sector vs unions in the public sector. I am in no way, shape or form responsible for what the unions negotiate for their retiring members in the private industry. The company they worked for gets to worry about. In the public sector however, we are all paying for the retirement of public employees.....
Click to expand...

not entirely true, how about when the government uses tax dollars to bail out private corporations that are in trouble in part due to unsustainable pension benefits negotiated for their retirees

Plus, isn't there something called the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. that is similar to the FDIC that offers pension insurance to private companies? I'm not really sure how it works, but I'm pretty sure it's a federal agency.

Anyhow, wasn't the original intent of unions to provide improved working conditions - and weren't they far more concerned with issues of work-place environment rather than so concerned with wages and benefits? That's what my feeble brain seems to recall learning many eons ago...

And I remember back in the late 70's - early 80's, when I dated a guy who worked for AFSCME and was very involved in their push to unionize workers in Illinois and Ohio, and I worked with a woman whose husband was an air-traffic controller who was out of a job once Regan decertified the union. I recall when we first started working together, she bragged about what a great job he had - sure there was stress, but the pay was great and the hours were good, etc etc etc. Then the union comes in and a year or two later he suddenly has the worst job in the world, and needs the union to make it better for him. And I knew other people who had started working in various capacities for state and city agencies, and they thought they had great jobs - - I remember arguing with my boyfriend at the time who was busy trying to convince them all that their jobs sucked and they needed to unionize to get parity. I knew several people who had turned down jobs in the private sector for a better job in the public sector, so it was difficult for me to understand why there was a need for the union. If the government workers had it so bad, why did they take the job in the first place?

At any rate, that was my line of thinking at the time. And I sort of still ask those same questions!
 
It's self funded like the FDIC, but it's underwater. Congress will be the backstop or retirees will lose everything. I'm pretty sure we all know which that will be.
 
The Fleebaggers in Wisconsin are racist. They tell a black man that he belongs behind a fence, and ask him if he has any children...that he claims:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiPsNYvntKE
 
so I wonder if across Cairo there are Egyptian citizens at their computers posting their thoughts on a message board about the protesters trying to overthrow the government in Madison,Wisconsin
 
Again, business as usual. Anytime state owned apparatus are sold without a bidding process, the idea that the states budget is of importance or that those in charge are looking for the "best" deal for their state is absolutely ludicrous. It's more state waste at the hands the usual ilk.

https://www.jsonline.com/business/116965798.html
 
Last edited:
The hyperbole from the right is downright scary in these times.

What legislation has the union influenced in Wisconsin, that has largely benefited workers and hurt the state in the last 10 years? I want at least 10 examples. It's too easy to blame the union on everything. I want specific examples of how the "union" has unfairly bent over the state to get what they unjustly wanted.

The hate towards teachers. So much of it is being puked from AM radio and fox. Unbelievable! In Utah especially, the union is being blamed for everything. If the teacher's union is so strong, you'd think they could get more than 30k per year and 35 students per classroom for their teachers.

The myth that people on welfare/food stamps/some form of government assistance are a bunch of lazy asses who work up one morning and decided to "make a living" on government assistance. Most of them, don't want to be there. In fact, most of them, are suffering on the crumbs that government assistance is. I have yet to see anyone build a home on the east side and drive a sports car off of their welfare check. I seriously wonder if most critics of welfare/poor people know that one most show evidence every month that they're actively seeking new employment or else lose their check.

The myth that SS is somehow bankrupting our country. That it's being used as a retirement. Seriously? Once again, the checks received aren't anything to be proud of. And very few people don't just screw up and not plan for retirement. Most do, but if Repubs deregulate everything so that wall street can take gambles and lose everyone's money....

with all the talk about unions ruining our states, why aren't we focusing on the real reason why so many states are facing tough financial times? The Great Recession. And what caused the recession? It wasn't the unions folks. What has been done to prevent the meltdown of our financial system that occurred 2 years ago from happening again? Of course, the rich and those in charge of foxnews and AM radio don't want to focus on that. They prefer the middle class make war with themselves. And when wall street melts down again? The middle class will bail them out again. But who cares? As long as the rich continue to redistribute wealth and get wealthier, that's all that matters.

One last thought... Why are we focusing so much on cutting domestic programs which benefit our own people while we're ******** trillions of dollars away in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why can't Europe and Asia defend themselves? And why are we investing billions into Haiti, Israel, and S. Korea? Why is EXXON, which is having record profits, still given government subsidies? Aren't they supposed to be used to subsidize companies that cannot survive on their own?
 
The Thriller said:
The hyperbole from the right is downright scary in these times.

What legislation has the union influenced in Wisconsin, that has largely benefited workers and hurt the state in the last 10 years? I want at least 10 examples. It's too easy to blame the union on everything. I want specific examples of how the "union" has unfairly bent over the state to get what they unjustly wanted.

The hate towards teachers. So much of it is being puked from AM radio and fox. Unbelievable! In Utah especially, the union is being blamed for everything. If the teacher's union is so strong, you'd think they could get more than 30k per year and 35 students per classroom for their teachers.

The myth that people on welfare/food stamps/some form of government assistance are a bunch of lazy asses who work up one morning and decided to "make a living" on government assistance. Most of them, don't want to be there. In fact, most of them, are suffering on the crumbs that government assistance is. I have yet to see anyone build a home on the east side and drive a sports car off of their welfare check. I seriously wonder if most critics of welfare/poor people know that one most show evidence every month that they're actively seeking new employment or else lose their check.

The myth that SS is somehow bankrupting our country. That it's being used as a retirement. Seriously? Once again, the checks received aren't anything to be proud of. And very few people don't just screw up and not plan for retirement. Most do, but if Repubs deregulate everything so that wall street can take gambles and lose everyone's money....

with all the talk about unions ruining our states, why aren't we focusing on the real reason why so many states are facing tough financial times? The Great Recession. And what caused the recession? It wasn't the unions folks. What has been done to prevent the meltdown of our financial system that occurred 2 years ago from happening again? Of course, the rich and those in charge of foxnews and AM radio don't want to focus on that. They prefer the middle class make war with themselves. And when wall street melts down again? The middle class will bail them out again. But who cares? As long as the rich continue to redistribute wealth and get wealthier, that's all that matters.

One last thought... Why are we focusing so much on cutting domestic programs which benefit our own people while we're ******** trillions of dollars away in Iraq and Afghanistan? Why can't Europe and Asia defend themselves? And why are we investing billions into Haiti, Israel, and S. Korea? Why is EXXON, which is having record profits, still given government subsidies? Aren't they supposed to be used to subsidize companies that cannot survive on their own?
Click to expand...

We'll never see eye to eye about anything college football, but this post here is spot on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top