Walker Kessler Bench Appreciation Thread

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Another hilarious stat is that Walker has a negative OBPM this season.

Do you know how hard it is for a rim running center to have a negative OBPM? It's a position/playstyle that leads to inflated advanced offensive statistics because of the high efficiency nature of the archetype.

 

[fishonjazz]

Per 36 Rudy Gobert is attempting 8.6 shots per game this season and makes 62% of them. 14.0 points per game. Efg % is 62
Per 36 Walker Kessler is attempting 9.5 shots per game this season and makes 62% of them. 12.9 points per game. Efg % is 63 (Kessler has also been trending up after a horrible start to the season. Last year he was at 72%)

The difference between the two is free throws. Kessler needs to improve in that regard without a doubt but its not like there is some huge difference on offense between the two. They both attempt about the same amount of shots, they shoot the exact same percentage and the score about the same much. Their defense is quite similar as well. (rudy averages 2.3 blocks per game per 36 and Kessler averages 4.0) One of them is a multiple time all star and veteran of many years and the other is in the first half of his second year. Its about time to give Kessler the respect he deserves. If we are going to act like rudy is a God then we should be acting like Kessler is a mini god.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Per 36 Rudy Gobert is attempting 8.6 shots per game this season and makes 62% of them. 14.0 points per game.
Per 36 Walker Kessler is attempting 9.5 shots per game this season and makes 62% of them. 12.9 points per game.

The difference between the two is free throws. Kessler needs to improve in that regard without a doubt but its not like there is some huge difference on offense between the two. They both attempt about the same amount of shots, they shoot the exact same percentage and the score about the same much. Their defense is quite similar as well. (rudy averages 2.3 blocks per game per 36 and Kessler averages 4.0) One of them is a multiple time all star and veteran of many years and the other is in the first half of his second year. Its about time to give Kessler the respect he deserves. If we are going to act like rudy is a God then we should be acting like Kessler is a mini god.

There's a massive difference. Gobert was the crux of a #1 ranked offense for years.

Gobert is past his offensive prime because he doesnt have the same springs anymore. Walker is 22 years old. When Gobert was 22 he had a FTR rate in the .600's, nearly 4x higher than Walker's.

 

[fishonjazz]

There's a massive difference. Gobert was the crux of a #1 ranked offense for years.

Gobert is past his offensive prime because he doesnt have the same springs anymore. Walker is 22 years old. When Gobert was 22 he had a FTR rate in the .600's, nearly 4x higher than Walker's.

Ya you keep leaning on free throws which im not sure why since i have been agreeing about the free throws. When gobert was 22 he took 7.1 shots per game and shot 60.4% and scored 11.4 ppg per 36. All those numbers are worse than kessler this year. (gobert did take 4.6 free throws per game per 36 at 62% which is better than kessler. but again, i have already condeded many times that free throws are a problem for kessler) Also turned it over more than kessler. (and remember, kessler was injured to start the year and had a horrible start. He is trending up now)

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Ya you keep leaning on free throws which im not sure why since i have been agreeing about the free throws. When gobert was 22 he took 7.1 shots per game and shot 60.4% and scored 11.4 ppg per 36. All those numbers are worse than kessler this year. (gobert did take 4.6 free throws per game per 36 at 62% which is better than kessler. but again, i have already condeded many times that free throws are a problem for kessler) Also turned it over more than kessler. (and remember, kessler was injured to start the year and had a horrible start. He is trending up now)

Walker had a player where he could have gone through Wiseman. Maybe he couldn't dunk it, but he could have forced contact for a foul instead he tried to flail a layup around him that would have made THT blush.

Him and Gobert aren't on the same planet when it comes to offense. Again, it's ridiculous anyone is trying to argue this as Jazz fans when we saw both for years. Yes, Walker shoots a similar percentage because he only takes shots he has a good chance of making and he won't attempt anything where contact might happen.

 

[fishonjazz]

Walker had a player where he could have gone through Wiseman. Maybe he couldn't dunk it, but he could have forced contact for a foul instead he tried to flail a layup around him that would have made THT blush.

Him and Gobert aren't on the same planet when it comes to offense. Again, it's ridiculous anyone is trying to argue this as Jazz fans when we saw both for years. Yes, Walker shoots a similar percentage because he only takes shots he has a good chance of making and he won't attempt anything where contact might happen.

Not only a similar percentage but also attempts a similar amount of shots and scores about the same amount of points. And this is true even when kessler had a horrible start to the year dealing with an injury and playing on a team that was a complete mess and is in the first part of his second year.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Not only a similar percentage but also attempts a similar amount of shots and scores about the same amount of points. And this is true even when kessler had a horrible start to the year dealing with an injury and playing on a team that was a complete mess and is in the first part of his second year.

But they arent shooting the same amount of shots because Gobert is getting fouled on shots....

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It will be interesting to see what they do when the play the Sixers.

Walker has no shot of guarding Embiid. Collins has even less of a shot, but they can spread him out on defense. Or do they go to Yurtseven who is probably our best individual post defender?

 

[fishonjazz]

Gobert took 3 shots last night for 5 points.
game before that gobert was 3-8.
Game before that he was 6-7 and 1-1 from the line for 13 points in 38 minutes.
kessler last night was 4-6 for 8 points in 29 minutes
Both guys rarely shoot the ball and when they do they are usually quite efficient as they both mostly shoot dunks and layups.
The numbers bare it out. There isn't some huge gap where gobert is an offensive juggernaut.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Gobert took 3 shots last night for 5 points.
game before that gobert was 3-8.
Game before that he was 6-7 and 1-1 from the line for 13 points in 38 minutes.
kessler last night was 4-6 for 8 points in 29 minutes
Both guys rarely shoot the ball and when they do they are usually quite efficient as they both mostly shoot dunks and layups.
The numbers bare it out. There isn't some huge gap where gobert is an offensive juggernaut.

Fish, King of Numbers.

 

[fishonjazz]

But they arent shooting the same amount of shots because Gobert is getting fouled on shots....

They are though. Gobert takes about 5 free throws per game per 36. that would be about 2.5 more shots added to his total shot attempts (8.6). So 11.1 for gobert and 10.5 for kessler (if we include his free throws as well)
If kessler can bring his free throw shooting up, which would probably increase his free throw rate, then he would be extremely similar to gobert offensively if not better. The free throws are a problem and are holding him back. I hope he improves a bunch in that regard.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

They are though. Gobert takes about 6 free throws per game per 36. that would be about 3 more shots added to his total (8.6). So 11.6 for gobert and 10.5 for kessler (if we include his free throws as well)

Ok bud, Walker is as good as Gobert. I'll just let you have that fantasy in your head.

 

[fishonjazz]

Ok bud, Walker is as good as Gobert. I'll just let you have that fantasy in your head.

I disagree. I think gobert is better than Kessler. Just think that they are similar type of players and both really good. Gobert is certainly better though. He has also played way more nba ball on way better teams with way better teammates so i kind of expect him to be better. He also makes like 30 million per year vs like 3 million for kessler lol. (and he is a much better free throw shooter which is where the most seperation comes in. Hopefully Kessler improves like Gobert did from the line. Gobert is also a better rebounder by a decent amount)

Gobert might be the best defensive player in the history of the nba. I expect walker kessler to be one of the best defensive player in the league each year and maybe win a DPOY award but not be in the discussion for greatest defender of all time.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I expect walker kessler to be one of the best defensive player in the league each year and maybe win a DPOY award but not be in the discussion for greatest defender of all time.

Walker is not a "great defender" right now. He's a great rim protector. He can't close out, he can't contain smaller players near the perimeter. You have to be able to do some of that or teams will take advantage.

Gobert always had much quicker feet than Walker, more wiry athleticism and a much bigger wingspan. I don't see Kessler ever becoming an all-court defensive menace, he simply doesn't have the build.

 

[hgb]

Walker is not a "great defender" right now. He's a great rim protector. He can't close out, he can't contain smaller players near the perimeter. You have to be able to do some of that or teams will take advantage.

Gobert always had much quicker feet than Walker, more wiry athleticism and a much bigger wingspan. I don't see Kessler ever becoming an all-court defensive menace, he simply doesn't have the build.

During Rudy's early years, it was pretty painful to see him guard the perimeter too, though. I agree that Walker doesn't have the same quickness, and might never have, but he's also been improving in that area IMHO. He had a couple of really nice possessions against Luka, for example (granted, not very small or quick, but still clearly improving). I also feel his closeouts have been much better, including some blocked threes here and there (and virtually no fouls).

 

[fishonjazz]

Walker is not a "great defender" right now. He's a great rim protector. He can't close out, he can't contain smaller players near the perimeter. You have to be able to do some of that or teams will take advantage.

Gobert always had much quicker feet than Walker, more wiry athleticism and a much bigger wingspan. I don't see Kessler ever becoming an all-court defensive menace, he simply doesn't have the build.

He is a great defender though. I literally watched him block a 3 point attempt last night. And the game before. I see him constantly having to leave his man to guard a teammates guy, swat that dude, turn around and swat another dude who got the rebound because no jazz players were doing anything. Covering huge portions of the court. I see him defending dudes on the perimeter well often.
I so often watch the jazz give up hella points then see Kessler come in the game and not give up hardly any points (@MT Steve often posts the stats on the game thread). You are tremendous downside so you don't see these things.
I saw someone post stats the other day showing Kessler combined with various jazz players and the amazing defensive rating improvement he causes.

He is a great defender. You are wrong. Just because he isn't as good a defender as gobert doesn't mean he isn't a great defender.

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk

 

[Fosto]

During Rudy's early years, it was pretty painful to see him guard the perimeter too, though. I agree that Walker doesn't have the same quickness, and might never have, but he's also been improving in that area IMHO. He had a couple of really nice possessions against Luka, for example (granted, not very small or quick, but still clearly improving). I also feel his closeouts have been much better, including some blocked threes here and there (and virtually no fouls).

No, it wasn't. Gobert was always good at guarding the perimeter. I don't think Kessler is bad at it either. He seems to do a fair job closing out and staying with his man.

 

[HermanG]

He is a great defender though. I literally watched him block a 3 point attempt last night. And the game before. I see him constantly having to leave his man to guard a teammates guy, swat that dude, turn around and swat another dude who got the rebound because no jazz players were doing anything. Covering huge portions of the court. I see him defending dudes on the perimeter well often.
I so often watch the jazz give up hella points then see Kessler come in the game and not give up hardly any points (@MT Steve often posts the stats on the game thread). You are tremendous downside so you don't see these things.
I saw someone post stats the other day showing Kessler combined with various jazz players and the amazing defensive rating improvement he causes.

He is a great defender. You are wrong. Just because he isn't as good a defender as gobert doesn't mean he isn't a great defender.

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk

I mean he guarded Luka 1on1 on the perimeter for few possessions and didnt give up a point as far as I remember.. Luka may have had some ailment but he scored 41 in their next game.

Kept perfect distance and made Luka miscalculate his blocking range:


View: https://x.com/JazzLead/status/1742017520822067703?s=20

He also had this play where he peeled off of Lively to block Luka who was cutting into the paint


View: https://x.com/JazzLead/status/1742031491516047485?s=20

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I mean he guarded Luka 1on1 on the perimeter for few possessions and didnt give up a point as far as I remember.. Luka may have had some ailment but he scored 41 in their next game.

Kept perfect distance and made Luka miscalculate his blocking range:


View: https://x.com/JazzLead/status/1742017520822067703?s=20

He also had this play where he peeled off of Lively to block Luka who was cutting into the paint


View: https://x.com/JazzLead/status/1742031491516047485?s=20

Walker's greatest trait is his IQ. I think he can survive against a guy like Luka because the footspeed isnt really the issue for people guarding Luka, it's that Luka is smarter than everyone and can get players to bite on things. Walker stays down and does a good job of staying solid. Against anyone with any kind of quickness on the perimeter he's usually getting roasted.

 

[HermanG]

Walker's greatest trait is his IQ. I think he can survive against a guy like Luka because the footspeed isnt really the issue for people guarding Luka, it's that Luka is smarter than everyone and can get players to bite on things. Walker stays down and does a good job of staying solid. Against anyone with any kind of quickness on the perimeter he's usually getting roasted.

IQ or instincts. He makes great reads either way.