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What's your explanation for early OKC success?

Why does Kanter look great in OKC

  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .
The Blue Elephant said:
Drafting for BPA is great when someone is clearly the best player. However Kanter was a big risk. One that shouldn't have been taken with Al, Paul, and Dfav with the 3rd pick.
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Agreed to an extent. I actually think Kanter was the right pick and BPA based on info at the time, but the team should have moved Big Al as soon as we drafted Kanter. While I am unhappy with what we got in trade, I agree we got all we could based on the situation. Kanter will do well in OKC. I am just pissed the organization allowed it to turn into this situation in the first place. It started with Corbin. I think most of us knew he wasn't the right fit from day one. We also had (and continue to have) major problems from the PG spot, which also affected Kanter's game. Quin's offense dissipates the PG problem to an extent, but it was glaring under Corbin's PG centric offense. Unfortunately, Quin's offense tried to fit a square peg in a round hole by trying to make Kanter do much of his work outside the paint. It was a largely failed experiment. I'm glad we didn't lose Hayward too, you could see his frustration last year. It was the first year I didn't watch every game since League Pass came out. There was frustration all around.

As a young player with a lack of experience and coming in during a lockout season, Kanter needed proper coaching, especially the mental aspects. And while Big Al was a great offensive mentor, Kanter needed someone to teach him good D. We squandered a very good player, who I think will end up being better than Favors. Not the first time the Jazz let this happen. I just hope they learn from it and do better in the future. To me, the hiring of Quin acknowledges that the organization realized these issues were occurring, and brought in a development focused coach to help the organization succeed. Unfortunately, the damage to Kanter was evidently too damaged to fix.

OKC took advantage of our series of mistakes. They have a deep frontcourt, and Ibaka and Kanter will do well together. Kanter will likely do better when KD comes back, as he is very good at sharing the ball.

Time to move forward. I'm glad we have Rudy to step in, and Hayward has stepped up as I predicted. We have a decent team. Hopefully our future drafts go well, and now we have a coach to maximize development from our young guys. If Hood can stay healthy, I think he will be a steal for us. Exum is a wild card, but he is oozing with potential. We have a good core, and I expect Quin to provide some great mentoring going forward. What we have is so much better than what we had under Corbin. I look forward to the journey of watching this team grow. Hopefully it leads to something great.
 
Heck Kanter didn't even want to get drafted by the Utah Jazz really. He never said he wouldn't want to get drafted by the Jazz technically but listed teams picking even after the Jazz pick as places he would like to get drafted. If Kanter was drafted by almost any other team in the league he would have had a better career so far. People seem to forget how dominant Kanter used to be before he entered the league. Now people like JV and Vucevic have surpassed him but I am sure Kanter will eventually catch up and potentially even surpass them.

On side note imagine the even bigger logjam the jazz would have had if they didn't trade memo. Luckily they managed to trade him.
 
Nate505 said:
I watch every game as well, and this is just pure fantasy.
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Can you find statistics about the substitutions for the Jazz? You will see it.


I just picked randomly some gamethreads I found through search to show some quotes (the titles of those quotes have a url to those game threads, if you want to see the gamethreads).

10-31-2014 Game 2 vs Mavs
"Kanter got 20 minutes last night and was pulled until the last two minutes. Quin was trying to save Booker and put Kanter in during garbage time. Kanter may not make it through this year. "

"Coach Snyder: I like the fact he played other guys hoping they could get something out of the bench. I also liked how he pulled Kanter out of the game in the first quarter and replaced him with Booker (7:45 mark) because Kanter missed a defensive rotation. I thought Kanter would sit for a while but he was out for a very short minute. I watch Kanter the next few trips down the court and he rotated on defense both times and I just smiled. However later in the game got lost again but at least when he got pulled in sunk in temporarily."


11-02-2014 Game 3 vs Suns
"Kanter gets pulled early again. Let's face it, he just doesn't fit in Quin's offense or defense. "

"At least Snyder is sticking to his word with if our guys don't play defense. Kanter only got 15 minutes tonight. Our bench did really well in this game too. "

11-13-2014 Game 9 vs Hawks
"I don't understand Quin substitutions...he benchs players when they are hot...he benched Booker early in the 4th quarter when he was on fire on defense...then he put him back on the court in the last minute over Kanter without sense! "
"Simply for defensive reasons. But I agree with you. Kanter should have stayed in. I think more than anything it messed with team chemistry. But in the coaches defense, all these experiences will help later in the year. Young coach."


11-14-2014 Game 10 vs Knicks
"Good thing Kanter is benched "
"Just joined the game - what happened to Kanter????? "
"havent seen kanter at all. "
"Solid game by Burke overall. Probably his best so far this season. But I don't understand why Kanter is in the doghouse. His D isn't THAT bad. It's not like Melo would have gone for 60 instead of 46. "


Ok, take your time and search for the rest. I just gave you examples from only 4 games of first 10 games so far.
You will find a lot more of those comments in all the other left gamethreads. I don't have the time to look up every game thread now.
Pay attention that my quotes are from different users, so not my comments.


If you say that my quotes are no evidence, then I just can smile. Because fact is that many people saw what I saw. Calling this pure fantasy is ... your fantasy. And I only covered 4 games from begin of the season.
 
sepulchre said:
Now finally 4th year. Starting. 27 minutes average looks fine.
But look closer.
I watched nearly all Jazz games this year.
Tell me who was the first guy ALWAYS switched with another player? No matter what happened?
Tell me how often Snyder benched Kanter for every mistake he did. It is ok if a coach benchs a player if he sucks for that game. But it is UNFAIR if he does this only to one player regularly and never to others. There were a lot of games were the other players sucked and he kept them playing no matter. Specially in the 4th quarter.
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Oh my god!! Ur whoa is me whining in this post is epic. Before Quin even coached one game... Quin said if u don't play good defense u won't get minutes on this team. Guess who played the least amount of defense and who was the weakest link on team defense. When I heard this I knew Kanter was in trouble. Fact of the matter Kanter was the third best big on this team. So, please tell me how Kanter was unfairly felt with those other guys playing over him were better and deserved to play ahead of that same delusional Kanter that thought he was worth Hayward money
 
sepulchre said:
Can you find statistics about the substitutions for the Jazz? You will see it.


I just picked randomly some gamethreads I found through search to show some quotes (the titles of those quotes have a url to those game threads, if you want to see the gamethreads).

10-31-2014 Game 2 vs Mavs
"Kanter got 20 minutes last night and was pulled until the last two minutes. Quin was trying to save Booker and put Kanter in during garbage time. Kanter may not make it through this year. "

"Coach Snyder: I like the fact he played other guys hoping they could get something out of the bench. I also liked how he pulled Kanter out of the game in the first quarter and replaced him with Booker (7:45 mark) because Kanter missed a defensive rotation. I thought Kanter would sit for a while but he was out for a very short minute. I watch Kanter the next few trips down the court and he rotated on defense both times and I just smiled. However later in the game got lost again but at least when he got pulled in sunk in temporarily."


11-02-2014 Game 3 vs Suns
"Kanter gets pulled early again. Let's face it, he just doesn't fit in Quin's offense or defense. "

"At least Snyder is sticking to his word with if our guys don't play defense. Kanter only got 15 minutes tonight. Our bench did really well in this game too. "

11-13-2014 Game 9 vs Hawks
"I don't understand Quin substitutions...he benchs players when they are hot...he benched Booker early in the 4th quarter when he was on fire on defense...then he put him back on the court in the last minute over Kanter without sense! "
"Simply for defensive reasons. But I agree with you. Kanter should have stayed in. I think more than anything it messed with team chemistry. But in the coaches defense, all these experiences will help later in the year. Young coach."


11-14-2014 Game 10 vs Knicks
"Good thing Kanter is benched "
"Just joined the game - what happened to Kanter????? "
"havent seen kanter at all. "
"Solid game by Burke overall. Probably his best so far this season. But I don't understand why Kanter is in the doghouse. His D isn't THAT bad. It's not like Melo would have gone for 60 instead of 46. "


Ok, take your time and search for the rest. I just gave you examples from only 4 games of first 10 games so far.
You will find a lot more of those comments in all the other left gamethreads. I don't have the time to look up every game thread now.
Pay attention that my quotes are from different users, so not my comments.


If you say that my quotes are no evidence, then I just can smile. Because fact is that many people saw what I saw. Calling this pure fantasy is ... your fantasy. And I only covered 4 games from begin of the season.
Click to expand...

Nice post.

As an aside, I find it endlessly interesting the lengths some people go to, and the length of time they take, to write such detailed discussion board posts, all to win an argument with absolutely zero stakes involved. I include myself in this too, but I don't think I've ever gone to this length.

As a further aside, I also find it interesting that people who respond to posts made by others seem to expect those persons to have spent a butt load of time to construct and draft a detailed, carefully worded argument complete with citations, etc, as if we have nothing better to do.

In any case, sorry for the diversion. Carry on.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Oh my god!! Ur whoa is me whining in this post is epic. Before Quin even coached one game... Quin said if u don't play good defense u won't get minutes on this team. Guess who played the least amount of defense and who was the weakest link on team defense. When I heard this I knew Kanter was in trouble. Fact of the matter Kanter was the third best big on this team. So, please tell me how Kanter was unfairly felt with those other guys playing over him were better and deserved to play ahead of that same delusional Kanter that thought he was worth Hayward money
Click to expand...

Look, my point was not saying that Kanter shouldn't get benched.
My point was that he was almost the only guy got benched ALTHOUGH other players had a lot of bad games, too. This is purely unfair.
And also, no matter if Kanter was on fire or not, Snyder applied his rotations onto him whereas when other guys were on fire, he hold back with his rotations for that spot (I'm talking about substitutions). I watched carefully enough games to be able to say that.
Lately it became better but the first half of the season was not fair when we see it from Kanter's view.
 
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sepulchre said:
Look, my point was not saying that Kanter shouldn't get benched.
My point was that he was almost the only guy got benched ALTHOUGH other players had a lot of bad games, too. This is purely unfair.
And also, no matter if Kanter was on fire or not, Snyder applied his rotations whereas when other guys were on fire, he hold back with his rotations for that spot. I watched carefully enough games to be able to say that.
Lately it became better but the first half of the season was not fair when we see it from Kanter's view.
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He didn't get benched regardless of him putting up good games or not he got benched due to being the worst defensive big on the team. He also was known for putting up good numbers that didn't amount to helping the team win


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
Nice post.

As an aside, I find it endlessly interesting the lengths some people go to, and the length of time they take, to write such detailed discussion board posts, all to win an argument with absolutely zero stakes involved. I include myself in this too, but I don't think I've ever gone to this length.

As a further aside, I also find it interesting that people who respond to posts made by others seem to expect those persons to have spent a butt load of time to construct and draft a detailed, carefully worded argument complete with citations, etc, as if we have nothing better to do.

In any case, sorry for the diversion. Carry on.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
Well, the problem is, when you have an opinion which might disturb a lot of people, you are kind of forced to make some effort. That means most of the people would ignore you because they think your opinion is utterly bull****. So if you want to be taken seriously, this is the only way to get some attention. Not that I or someone needs attention, but if you want to discuss things, you need someone to discuss :).

And when I put effort, than I expect the same. Else I see no reason to discuss further.
 
Its crazy how stubborn our fan base is when it comes to there player preferences. Kanter is a good player and was mishandled by our team. Hell he begged for three years to be allowed to shot 3s and when he did hes successful. Everyone said he couldnt pass.... I saw some pretty awesome fullcourt outlet passes last night that. Everyone said his D was awful, brought the whole team down.... I saw solid team and personal d.
 
JoelHodgeJr said:
Its crazy how stubborn our fan base is when it comes to there player preferences. Kanter is a good player and was mishandled by our team. Hell he begged for three years to be allowed to shot 3s and when he did hes successful. Everyone said he couldnt pass.... I saw some pretty awesome fullcourt outlet passes last night that. Everyone said his D was awful, brought the whole team down.... I saw solid team and personal d.
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Kanter sucks
 
sepulchre said:
Just want to say a few words about this.

The problem was, first 2 years of his career Utah focused on Big Al and Millsap. I'm not saying Kanter should have been the starter nor the main focus. But he was completely ignored for 2 years. His development was the last thing it seemed.
But the worst thing here is: why? For what did Utah focus on Big Al and Millsap? Can you tell me the big important reason behind this decision? What was so much more important than developing your 3rd pick?
Let's say there was a reason. Alright, I'm fine with it.

Now tell me why did Utah let them walk away then? If there was a reason that their roles were more important instead of Kanter's role, why the hell you let BOTH of them go away then? If you were going to let them walk away for nothing, why didn't you use the years before in developing Kanter, so he can start after they go?


Now, what about the third year. Let's say there was a reason for the first 2 years. Alright, fine. But now Al and Millsap are gone.
What about this 3rd year. What is now the reason for not developing him? There was no Gobert.
Why did he only start in 37 games that year? Explain me. Was Utah going for a playoff seed? Utah was last in Western that year.
Again Kanter got fooled for NOTHING. 3 years wasted.


Now finally 4th year. Starting. 27 minutes average looks fine.
But look closer.
I watched nearly all Jazz games this year.
Tell me who was the first guy ALWAYS switched with another player? No matter what happened?
Tell me how often Snyder benched Kanter for every mistake he did. It is ok if a coach benchs a player if he sucks for that game. But it is UNFAIR if he does this only to one player regularly and never to others. There were a lot of games were the other players sucked and he kept them playing no matter. Specially in the 4th quarter.

And in addition to his.
Kanter was always the 5th option in the offence. Almost no existent runs made for him. The only runs for this center were those open jumpers he had to take. A center taking a lot of jumpers.
And this is in my opinion the reason why he had almost no assists in games or he was so egoistic. Because the only way to put his wished numbers was to be selfish, else he would have averaged sth like 7 points a game. Because he was ignored, he went on selfish mode.

And the last reason is Gobert. It is awesome that Jazz has Gobert. But it isn't awesome for Kanter. Because finally, where he is the starter now and gets time for his development, now someone else is rising and threatening his position. And slowly it began again. All people wanted Gobert start instead of Kanter and Snyder showed some signs that this will maybe the future.

See it from his view. 3 year you got fooled and now another year. It was too much and he asked for a trade. Better for him and for Gobert.
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I agree with your post but bold part is a complete and utter ********. Kanter had at least 2 plays run each quarter for him to get low post position on the right. At least. In addition, once or twice per game he had a 3pt opportunity until February and his regular mid-range jumpers always were there but you can argue those were not designated plays, fine.
All in all, Kanter had very little to complain under Snyder, bar having Booker playing probably too much ahead of Enes when it mattered. Having him Corbin induced trauma he very well could have overreacted in his contract year seeing Gobert emergence and lack of commitment by the Jazz with Booker playing significant minutes for 4th big.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Oh my god!! Ur whoa is me whining in this post is epic. Before Quin even coached one game... Quin said if u don't play good defense u won't get minutes on this team. Guess who played the least amount of defense and who was the weakest link on team defense.
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Burke?
 
zbone said:
I agree with your post but bold part is a complete and utter ********. Kanter had at least 2 plays run each quarter for him to get low post position on the right. At least. In addition, once or twice per game he had a 3pt opportunity until February and his regular mid-range jumpers always were there but you can argue those were not designated plays, fine.
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Do you mean those post-ups, where he had to go for a sky hook, a jumper or a an up and under?
They are not designated plays either. Most of the time Gordon dribbled for 5-10 seconds and gave Enes the ball. Like "here is the ball and create your own shot". And then he got double teamed or he travelled or forced a shot or he made it. The only runs were made for him when someone penetrated, so he is open and got a jumper. Of course here and then there may be other runs, but I talk about runs which made regularly for him.
 
sepulchre said:
And in addition to his.
Kanter was always the 5th option in the offence. Almost no existent runs made for him. The only runs for this center were those open jumpers he had to take. A center taking a lot of jumpers.
And this is in my opinion the reason why he had almost no assists in games or he was so egoistic. Because the only way to put his wished numbers was to be selfish, else he would have averaged sth like 7 points a game. Because he was ignored, he went on selfish mode.
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Amazing post. I made the same hypothesis why he wasn't passing the ball. The only way to produce points was to be selfish. He was very often alone in low post but his teammates often ignored him. In addition passing the ball to players like Burke, Exum, Elijah Millsap, Ingles and so on is not like putting money in the bank.

I think Kanter considerd himself the 1st or 2nd offensive option with the current Jazz but Snyder decided other offensive hierarchys. Anyway when a team does not have playoff ambition, the individual offensive numbers become primary.
 
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sepulchre said:
Do you mean those post-ups, where he had to go for a sky hook, a jumper or a an up and under?
They are not designated plays either. Most of the time Gordon dribbled for 5-10 seconds and gave Enes the ball. Like "here is the ball and create your own shot". And then he got double teamed or he travelled or forced a shot or he made it. The only runs were made for him when someone penetrated, so he is open and got a jumper. Of course here and then there may be other runs, but I talk about runs which made regularly for him.
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No, I mean when Kanter gets the ball deep in the post with his back to the basket and perimeter players all shifting to the strong side. He then goes for a spin move or up and under. Those plays are run for him even if after a broken another play, they are still designated plays for Kanter.
 
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