Why the HATE for Kanter?

[MT Steve]

I don't hate Kanter, but I hate the "Turk/Kanter fans vs Jazz fans" dynamic that is developing, and to be blunt, topics like this and that Thunder gamethread don't help.

I hope this discussion dies soon.

 

[Flc]

Here's a little tidbit that will **** with all yalls tiny brains (and balls). Kanter was ASKED to publicly ask for a trade. Fact, as I hear it that is... Hmmmmm...

#pkmbomb

But seriously - HOLY ****. Asked by who? Lindsey? Any guess as to the rationale? And do you trust your source on this? Because if this is coming from Enes or Max, I wouldn't buy it.

 

[MilesDeep]

Here's a few reasons from me:

1. I don't like the fact that he's disingenuous. During the same years where, as reported by Jody and others, his agent was badgering the front office for a trade, Kanter was repeatedly sending out tweets like: "Jazzman for life!" I may be nitpicking, but the entire thing seems two-faced and disrespectful to the fans.

2. I don't like that he has a fixed mindset rather than a growth mindset. He was constantly blaming others or external factors for his less than stellar play. Very fragile ego. He could have attempted to rise to the challenge being presented by the other, more superior play of our bigs (the way Burke is appearing to do with Exum) but instead he put it on Corbin, Snyder, and Lindsey.

3. I've never liked his play. Black hole on offense, lazy defender, looking to get his, whining about minutes. The entire thing strikes me as a selfish player that wasn't buying into the team.

4. The entire "patience, patience, patience" and the "Thank God I'm with the Thunder" tweets and interviews is insulting as a Jazz fan. He had an opportunity to build something here along with our other young players, and he took a pass. If he's not happy being a third big behind Favors and Gobert but he's thanking God for being the third big behind Ibaka and Adams, that represents a serious character flag to me. I'm a fan of the players who commit to the hard work over a long period of time and reap the benefits. Stockton, Malone, Hayward, Favors. Same reason I never respected LeBron's "Decision" to the Heat.

5. Similarly, if Kanter thinks he's a super-duper-star, he should be able to power his team to a championship by the sheer force of his talents. He had that opportunity on the Jazz. Now, he seems perfectly content to ride real superstars' coattails into the playoffs. Great situation for him, but it stands in stark contrast to his own (and his agent's) inflated opinion.

To sum up: I'm happy he's gone and I hope he comes to the DWill recognition three to five years from now, or even this year after playing 15 min a game behind Adams, that he never knew how good he had it. I love poetic justice.

Verbose, but pretty much spot on. I personally like Kanter better now that I don't have to watch him emulate Boozers' defense. If you find yourself starting games, but consistently riding pine when the game is on the line, perhaps it isn't really the coaches making a mistake. It should matter when you repeatedly get beat by opponents that you are physically better than. Four other guys on the court should be able to count on you to give them the ball when they've worked to get open. They should be able to count on you for help when they've been beaten defensively, and your 6' 10-11 and 260. Kanter won't be missed by the people that matter the most; his former teammates. Kanter will get his money, genetics have assured him of that. OKC won't be the place though because he still won't be getting the treatment (minutes) he feels entitled to receive, and there's already two people that deserve every shot and touch on offense. No, somewhere there will be a situation where his talents can be fully utilized and he'll go there only to find out that he'll be held back again because all coaches are stupid. Effort matters, selfishness leads to isolation, "getting mine" becomes good riddance. When Kanter figures that out, he'll get what he really wants. Until then, at least he'll have money.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I think you guys are bunch of bashers who can't see all sides of the situation. Kanter was handled very poorly his first three years, and the frustration obviously had built up. I do think though that Quin was willing to work with him and try to turn his career around. But Enes is young and impatient. Maybe he is making a mistake, but look at it from his perspective. With Rudy emerging as our number one big, Enes is going to have to come off the bench. Enes sees himself as a future All-Star but with Rudy in the way, he won't be able to develop his talents as he envisions. Maybe he never will; maybe he is just too slow, reflexively and mentally, to ever become an All-Star. But you should at least be able to see it from his side. It's similar to Reggie Jackson playing behind Westbrook, though Jackson has more talent and more entitled to feel as he did.

That's just it: He wasn't.
Year 1. He hadn't played in over a year. He was drafted based on potential, not "NBA readiness." He played in 66 games and averaged 13 mins.
Year 2. You CAN make a case for underusage that season, Played 15 mins/per. Probably deserved more. But based on his play, the Jazz made a commitment and let Big Al go so he could be the starter the following season.
Year 3. Averaged 27 mins/per. Was starting the first of the season but his defense was HORRIBLE. Moved to the bench. Still got the same number of mins. but with less pressure and able to play more against subs.
Year 4. Starting and averaging 27 mins, more than Gobert or Booker, but less than Favors.

Again, you can blame Corbin all you want, but please tell me why Favors and Hayward were able to improve so much under the same coaches and in each off-season? Please, stop being disingenuous like Enes and his agent. It was NOT about development. Jazz gave him the opportunity to go to P3; they had him work with Karl Malone; Big Al mentored him during his first 2 seasons. At some point, Enes has to be the one responsible for putting in the time and effort to get better. In that respect, he was very much like AK. AK didn't work very hard during the summers and progressed very little from his 3rd season on. In fact, he regressed soon after signing his big deal.

The trade demand was all about Kanter's sense of self-entitlement. He hangs that #3 draft status around his neck like it's a golden ticket. Too a certain extent, it is. I have no doubt some desperate team is going to use all that extra space in 2016 to pay him a huge contract. But the reason for leaving Utah was not about development. It was about no longer being King of the Mountain.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Here's a little tidbit that will **** with all yalls tiny brains (and balls). Kanter was ASKED to publicly ask for a trade. Fact, as I hear it that is... Hmmmmm...

I'm calling BS unless it was Ergul who gave him that advice. And if so, that doesn't really mess with my mind at all. Ergul is equally delusional by proclaiming that Kanter was the best player of his generation.

And this may also **** with your mind. Lindsey admitted they were shopping Kanter much earlier. So to those who claimed we could have gotten a better deal before Kanter made his demand, well, it hadn't happened yet. Maybe DL was asking too much. If so, you can't fault him.

 

[Flc]

Did PKM really just waltz in here, drop a bomb, and then make an Irish exit?

 

[Bodhi]

*eye roll emoji*

 

[MT Steve]

Asked by agent or the Jazz?

By his agent. But that's assuming the Jazz didn't want to purposefully destroy their own leverage in trade discussions.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

That's just it: He wasn't.
Year 1. He hadn't played in over a year. He was drafted based on potential, not "NBA readiness." He played in 66 games and averaged 13 mins.
Year 2. You CAN make a case for underusage that season, Played 15 mins/per. Probably deserved more. But based on his play, the Jazz made a commitment and let Big Al go so he could be the starter the following season.
Year 3. Averaged 27 mins/per. Was starting the first of the season but his defense was HORRIBLE. Moved to the bench. Still got the same number of mins. but with less pressure and able to play more against subs.
Year 4. Starting and averaging 27 mins, more than Gobert or Booker, but less than Favors.

Again, you can blame Corbin all you want, but please tell me why Favors and Hayward were able to improve so much under the same coaches and in each off-season? Please, stop being disingenuous like Enes and his agent. It was NOT about development. Jazz gave him the opportunity to go to P3; they had him work with Karl Malone; Big Al mentored him during his first 2 seasons. At some point, Enes has to be the one responsible for putting in the time and effort to get better. In that respect, he was very much like AK. AK didn't work very hard during the summers and progressed very little from his 3rd season on. In fact, he regressed soon after signing his big deal.

The trade demand was all about Kanter's sense of self-entitlement. He hangs that #3 draft status around his neck like it's a golden ticket. Too a certain extent, it is. I have no doubt some desperate team is going to use all that extra space in 2016 to pay him a huge contract. But the reason for leaving Utah was not about development. It was about no longer being King of the Mountain.

Core-4 can you be my advocate for life?

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Did PKM really just waltz in here, drop a bomb, and then make an Irish exit?

It ain't nothin to cut that bish off.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Asked by agent or the Jazz?

agent, obvi.. Jazz would never do that.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Core-4 can you be my advocate for life?

Only if you promise to give 100% effort on 95% of game days. I know there will be a few times you just don't feel it, are sick, or a bit dinged up. But once you start whining like a little girl and jackpotting around, I'll drop your sorry *** faster than a mf-bomb from Carlos Boozer's mouth.

 

[bezerkus]

I hated him when he wouldn't dance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlHeR4m6pUs

I hated when he did dance:
[URL[/MEDIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4HMM_MpJ3c[/URL]

I hated the way he prancercised upcourt.
[URL[/MEDIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-50GjySwew[/URL]

I hate that he had the body I wish I had.

I hated way he wore his mouth piece.

I hated his hat:

I hated that he got all the girls:

I hated his rotation on defense was equal to that of the moon.

He just didn't do what needed to be done on defense...

But most of all I hate that he gets to play in the NBA and I have to play NBA2K.

Good luck Kanter! I wish you well, and I will hope that I don't swear at my TV as much when I see you play now.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

So now Kanter is public enemy #1? for three years, he never caused any locker room issues, as far as we all know he was a good teammate with this franchise with no bad rumors or news whatsoever, courteous in interview, with media and fans. He might have secretly petitioned for more playing time, but you think he is the first and only guy in Jazz history to ever done that? To want to play more does not make you a bad dude.

So everyone hated him for publicly (or having his agent publicly) declared that he wants to be traded, but honestly ask yourself if you were in his shoes after all the years under Corbs and now he is the third banana, would you have tried to force the hand a little bit? Just saying being a up-and-coming 22 yr old, he has every right to do right by him.

I am saying he has been a good jazz member for 3 years, why can't we just wish him well and let it go.

Aren't u just a hateful poor little man

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Max ergul is da puppet master

 

[cowhide]

How many players who have publically demanded to be traded from the team they are on didn't get hate from the fans of that team....yeah, I'll let you clowns who think his trade demand has nothing to do with his hate think on that one.

Please people have been hating on Kanter ever since he got injured. The #3 pick in the draft is just a dumb reason to hate on the kid. Yes kid!!! The draft he was in sucked. Kanter should have been more of a lower lotto pick.
Utah isn't for everyone. It is laughable when Jazz fans show their "Utah" inferior complex. He doesn't want to be here so I have to hate him.

Really why are people so upset about him leaving. Most of the Jazz fans thought Kanter sucked or was a black hole. THen why are you upset, shouldn't you be happy because DL didn't sign him to a big contract? I am. I think Kanter has a lot of offensive talent but I don't think he has the physical attributes or desire to be a good defender. I am fine with him leaving because I think Rudy is the real deal and he makes us an elite defensive team. It is all good as far as I am concerned. I think people should be glad that Kanter wanted out instead of him staying and us regretting it later especially since Gobert would have become disenchanted.

I think Kanter will be a very good offensive player but it still remains to be seen if he remains in OKC. Again no one knows what goes behind the scenes but if Kanter didn't want to be here than I am glad he is gone. Time to move on and hating on him is a waste of energy. He isn't here so I don't really care that much about what happens to him. I certainly not going hate on him considering his leaving helped the team get better in my opinion.

This hate for Kanter is even funnier when I think how many Jazz fans still love AK and talked about him coming back last year.

 

[addictionary]

Let's wait until he truly IS the 3rd big and the Thunder still want to get minutes for McGary AND Collison. Jazz only had Booker as their 4th big and were trying to get him 10 mins. Gobert was also just playing around 25 mins.

Ibaka 30, Adams 25, Kanter 25, Collison 20, McGary 10?
Oh wait, that adds up to 110 minutes. So you have to cut 14 mins somewhere. Not sure how that's going to work. Maybe McGary gets DNP's. That still leaves Kanter with even fewer minutes than he played in Utah.

Remember how Deron wised up and changed his attitude about Utah? Almost sounded remorseful. I think the same thing happens with Enes. He'll never admit it, but he was in a pretty good situation here, with a coach who was trying to help him improve his game.

It wasn't about the minutes. I think it should be obvious by now. It was for obvious reasons.

After Kanters assist to Ibaka. Kanter was so happy doing a bro fist. I am willing to bet good money that it was because he got an assist rather than Ibaka making a shot. Utah media people said during the 1280 radio that Kanter would always look at the box score after a game and didn't really care about the outcome of it as long as he got the stats.

I think this is a false statement. Enes was always pretty much obsessed about winning.

I don't hate Kanter, but I hate the "Turk/Kanter fans vs Jazz fans" dynamic that is developing, and to be blunt, topics like this and that Thunder gamethread don't help.

I hope this discussion dies soon.

I know there are a few that looks like it. It's nothing big to take it as a dynamic. There is no such thing as Turkish fans vs Jazz fans.

 

[cowhide]

He asked to be traded...why is that part of the equation lost? This isn't people booing Gordon Giricek, who didn't ask to be traded. Kanter did, showing not only that he didn't want to be here but also poisoning his trade value as well. Is there some universe where that wouldn't generate a lot of hate from fans?

What trade value? According to most people he sucks. I never heard the words come out of Enes' mouth. I heard his agent say he wanted to be traded. Malone asked to be traded too. SO! He was upset about not being put back into a game. People forget that all players have egos and emotions. No one knows exactly what went on behind closed doors. I recall Rudy complaining about playing time too but the guy is already in the HOF for most Jazz players. People forgot that Kanter is 22 years old. He is still a kid. So patience isn't a virtue for most 22 year olds who have been the star of his countries team.

Gordon G. complained about his role too. Sloan was around so he just got rid of him because he doesn't like guys whining about their roles. Besides the majority of Jazz fans defended AK like he was a brother on this board. Kanter was a saint compared to him. I can't believe people are so upset with Kanter, most fans didn't like his game and wanted him gone. Now they are bitching about him leaving and insinuating he was some kind of malcontent. I am sure there is no one on this board who hasn't complained about their job and wanted to leave.

Again it is all good because know Rudy and Booker can get more minutes and Favors can now play his natural position PF. Another thing based on reports there was no way the Jazz were going to match his contract demands so a trade was inevitable. He was good as gone. His so called value was never as high as people thought it was and it seems comical when you read all the criticism toward Enes. How could the Jazz have gotten more if the majority of his haters don't think he is very good?

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

Here's a few reasons from me:

1. I don't like the fact that he's disingenuous. During the same years where, as reported by Jody and others, his agent was badgering the front office for a trade, Kanter was repeatedly sending out tweets like: "Jazzman for life!" I may be nitpicking, but the entire thing seems two-faced and disrespectful to the fans.

2. I don't like that he has a fixed mindset rather than a growth mindset. He was constantly blaming others or external factors for his less than stellar play. Very fragile ego. He could have attempted to rise to the challenge being presented by the other, more superior play of our bigs (the way Burke is appearing to do with Exum) but instead he put it on Corbin, Snyder, and Lindsey.

3. I've never liked his play. Black hole on offense, lazy defender, looking to get his, whining about minutes. The entire thing strikes me as a selfish player that wasn't buying into the team.

4. The entire "patience, patience, patience" and the "Thank God I'm with the Thunder" tweets and interviews is insulting as a Jazz fan. He had an opportunity to build something here along with our other young players, and he took a pass. If he's not happy being a third big behind Favors and Gobert but he's thanking God for being the third big behind Ibaka and Adams, that represents a serious character flag to me. I'm a fan of the players who commit to the hard work over a long period of time and reap the benefits. Stockton, Malone, Hayward, Favors. Same reason I never respected LeBron's "Decision" to the Heat.

5. Similarly, if Kanter thinks he's a super-duper-star, he should be able to power his team to a championship by the sheer force of his talents. He had that opportunity on the Jazz. Now, he seems perfectly content to ride real superstars' coattails into the playoffs. Great situation for him, but it stands in stark contrast to his own (and his agent's) inflated opinion.

To sum up: I'm happy he's gone and I hope he comes to the DWill recognition three to five years from now, or even this year after playing 15 min a game behind Adams, that he never knew how good he had it. I love poetic justice.

I really liked your response, and can tell that you are a dedicated Jazz fan. I do have some differences with what you posted. Kanter obviously needed to go. I am not happy with what we received in return but that is another discussion. I found it interesting when mentioning that you respect the die hard Jazz players that go through the thick and thin and demand the best from them selves. But why do you accept less from the Jazz management? Why is it ok when they don't demand the best from them selves? Why is it ok when they are contempt with falling well short of the playoffs for multiple years? As a fan wouldn't you demand the best from the top all the way down to the players??

 

[Getting Traded]

Please people have been hating on Kanter ever since he got injured. The #3 pick in the draft is just a dumb reason to hate on the kid. Yes kid!!! The draft he was in sucked. Kanter should have been more of a lower lotto pick.
Utah isn't for everyone. It is laughable when Jazz fans show their "Utah" inferior complex. He doesn't want to be here so I have to hate him.

Really why are people so upset about him leaving. Most of the Jazz fans thought Kanter sucked or was a black hole. THen why are you upset, shouldn't you be happy because DL didn't sign him to a big contract? I am. I think Kanter has a lot of offensive talent but I don't think he has the physical attributes or desire to be a good defender. I am fine with him leaving because I think Rudy is the real deal and he makes us an elite defensive team. It is all good as far as I am concerned. I think people should be glad that Kanter wanted out instead of him staying and us regretting it later especially since Gobert would have become disenchanted.

I think Kanter will be a very good offensive player but it still remains to be seen if he remains in OKC. Again no one knows what goes behind the scenes but if Kanter didn't want to be here than I am glad he is gone. Time to move on and hating on him is a waste of energy. He isn't here so I don't really care that much about what happens to him. I certainly not going hate on him considering his leaving helped the team get better in my opinion.

This hate for Kanter is even funnier when I think how many Jazz fans still love AK and talked about him coming back last year.

I agree but I wish the Jazz could've gotten something better for him -- a better draft pick would've been good. Mostly what they got was cap space. The two players probably are never going to make it in the NBA.

But for the guys who hate him because they say he didn't put in the effort I think are wrong. He doesn't have much lift; he's slow to react which is why he gets blocked a lot (though he uses pump fakes better now and gets blocked less often); he doesn't see the floor well because instead of anticipating plays like someone like Boris Diaw, he's mentally behind what's happening on the court. His lateral foot speed is like Boozer's though probably not that bad. But he does have great strength, and overall I think he has made a lot of improvement despite injuries since his rookie year. I think he will continue to improve, though I doubt he'll ever be an All-Star.