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Will Jazz fans kill the Utah Jazz franchise?

Marty McFly said:
****ing THIS.

and to answer the OP's question: possibly. Your average Utah Jazz fan is by far the most sheltered, delusional fan in the league. There is a very, very high chance that they turn on D-Will just because of some garbage spewed by Ric Bucher and Chris Broussard.
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Dude, Jerry Sloan resigned. Duh.

All the "Sloan must go dudes" in here.

You say Jazz fan is the most sheltered fan in the league, what does this mean? Do you know who the majority of the board represent, guy?
 
My work is done here.

Thank you.

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twentytwo said:
You guys are completely delusional if you think this will turn out like the LeBron saga at all. Do you not know anything about the Utah Jazz?
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Well, I don't see Deron being given his own special on ESPN - if that's what you mean.
Whatever happens with the CBA, I think there's going to be a real push to make it easier for the owners to retain players. With the exception of a few big market teams, I think every owner fears being "LeBron'd." Whether it's utilizing a "franchise" label like exists in the NFL, or increasing the disparity between what can be offered by a player's current team vs. potential suitors, something will be done.

I think a sign and trade is still what may happen down the road for Deron, if the Jazz are not competitive and he voices a desire to leave.
 
No, but they may kill Jazzfanz. Where did all of these new posters come from? How many boo or not to boo threads do we need? A new Sloan thread for every new thought? What a cluster %$#@.
 
GlassEater said:
Well, I don't see Deron being given his own special on ESPN - if that's what you mean.
Whatever happens with the CBA, I think there's going to be a real push to make it easier for the owners to retain players. With the exception of a few big market teams, I think every owner fears being "LeBron'd." Whether it's utilizing a "franchise" label like exists in the NFL, or increasing the disparity between what can be offered by a player's current team vs. potential suitors, something will be done.

I think a sign and trade is still what may happen down the road for Deron, if the Jazz are not competitive and he voices a desire to leave.
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I think the fear of being "Lebrowned" is a legitimate concern. Avoiding collusion among the teams and players is one reason for a CBA. That is why there are moratoriums on talking to potential free agents during parts of the year and why teams get punished for approaching or enticing players during those times. But we have always known that players are friends and sure they talk about things, and players can decide where to sign in free agency of course. But this move by LeBron et al is an all-new low. Pretty brazen of them to all together at the same time move to the same team and start requesting other players, all out in the open. This has to have the owners very worried. It is a precedent that in my mind could kill the entire league, not just the Jazz. I certainly hope this gets resolved in the next CBA or the NBA model may realistically move to 4 all-star teams per conference and a few others to get slaughtered now and then.

If you were Blake Griffin and you had the choice would you rather play for the Clippers or for the Lakers or Heat right now? The high wages in my opinion are part of what is driving this new change. Is there really a difference between 12 million a year and 9 or 10 million, or 14 mill vs 11 or 12? Especially when taking a little less will let your team sign another all-star player for similar money and then other solid role players maybe just one tier removed from all-star level? And with teams willing to enter luxury tax territory it is easier for them to pay more so the players take less of a cut. Sure there are the Bozzers of the world who care about nothing but the money and not about loyalty or winning. But many other players, especially top-tier guys facing the prospect of leaving the game like Malone and Stockton did, never having won a ring, will be willing to take that minor cut in pay and collude to get one before their career ends. Malone tried it and failed, but this is a different thing altogether from that move. Riding coat-tails in the waning years of your career is one thing. Planning with your other mid-career buddies what team you are all going to go to and then orchestrating it is something completely different.

If I were Griffin I would be happy to play for 8-10 mill per year (or even maybe a little less) for 5 or 6 years to play with LeBron or Kobe and win a boatload of championships, then move to one of the bottom-dwellers that will be happy to shell out 20 mill per season for a 6 year contract to end my career, happy or at least accepting to be delusional enough to think they can compete. Then you get it all baby. But it will drive the NBA down the tubes eventually. It just can't go on like that for long.
 
JimLes said:
This will be like Lebron's last year-and-a-half in Cleveland. A team catering to every single whim of a star player who has long ago decided to leave. He just neglected to inform everyone.
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This. The writing has been on the wall as far as Williams was concerned before this dustup even occurred.
 
Sub-Odeon said:
Losing Stockton would have wrecked the franchise in the 90s.

Losing D-Will is going to hurt the Jazz, no question, but D-Will has yet to play to even half of Stockton's potential.

I have said many times in various places that D-Will is the core of the team right now, but if the core needs to be thrown out and we have to start over because the core can't or won't prove himself to be man enough to walk his talk, so be it. D-Will can speak lots of words about hard work and the will to win, but it's all hot air if he can't put his play where his mouth is. Sloan is out. If that's what D-Will needed most to become a champion player, let him prove it. It's all on him now. Sucks to be him.

I think D-Will leaves in 2012. After he finds out how rough it is having to freelance his own system.
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This is really at the heart of the DW hate. Many fans will never except the fact that DW is not John Stockton. They are two different players. But to marginalize DW accomplishments is ridiculous.. DW has done some things Stockton never did and vice versa. If the Jazz were to lose DW I am sorry it would set them back a decade before they would be any good. And other thing, Stockton wasn't perfect, he never won a championship, had plenty of turnovers and lost games for the Jazz. Every player does. As the years pass there seems to be Jazz fans that forget the fact that Sloan and Stockton were not perfect while demonizing DW for everything they preceive he does wrong. DW isn't perfect but stop comparing him to a fictional idea of John Stockton.
 
Archie Moses said:
Do you deny, if the speculation is true, it draws some parallels?
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You are basing your opinion on speculation? What ever happen to facts? Sometimes $hit happens. Why does everyone have to demonize another to make an argument? Why is it only DW's fault? Sloan has no blame? Or maybe Jerry is simply tired. When you get old sometimes enough is just enough. It happens a lot faster when you are old. Take it for an old guy.
 
VINYLONE said:
If done, will this act push Williams in the direction of leaving the team? And if he does leave the team under those pretenses, will any other black player ever want to play on this team again? A team who's fan base turned on their star player in quick fashion. It's obvious that the days of innocent until proven guilty are long gone and now one is tried in the media and on the internets.
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What's interesting, is that while targeting the collective psyche of "bad" Jazz fans on this matter, you actually make a point against Deron's mentality. That is, assuming that fan reaction would drive him away.

It would just be a further example of how mentally weak he is, which I think has been displayed to a great degree up to this point. And if the fans are right?

Then I suppose the whole thing would be redundant.

In reality, I doubt he gets booed. Certainly not like Boozer the other night. Though, I wouldn't feel bad in the least if he was, and it would be far more sensible than the Boozer-hate, or the Fisher idiocy.

Perhaps Deron can use that as one of many retroactive excuses. When he's in Dallas. Orlando. New York. LA?
 
cowhide said:
You are basing your opinion on speculation? What ever happen to facts? Sometimes $hit happens. Why does everyone have to demonize another to make an argument? Why is it only DW's fault? Sloan has no blame? Or maybe Jerry is simply tired. When you get old sometimes enough is just enough. It happens a lot faster when you are old. Take it for an old guy.
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Again, how do you know those are the facts? Because that's what they said and we should take everyone in the Jazz organization's comments for face value? When you're in the public light, and something huge happens like this, there's going to be speculation - especially on a message board. Like I've said many times, I'm not sure anyone knows the full truth yet.
 
VINYLONE said:
Welcome to Jazz Fanz 2011, where with no evidence, a small contingent of Jazz fans have decided to boo their star point guard.

If done, will this act push Williams in the direction of leaving the team? And if he does leave the team under those pretenses, will any other black player ever want to play on this team again? A team who's fan base turned on their star player in quick fashion. It's obvious that the days of innocent until proven guilty are long gone and now one is tried in the media and on the internets.

Jazz fans as a whole have always felt marginalized by the rest of the league and the sports media world. This much is true. But will that feeling of marginalization be the catalyst for the demise of the franchise as a whole?

The major sports interweb sites have all but blamed Williams without so much as a concrete fact, while the front office, the ownership and the player have all spoke to the contrary. In complete "ironical explosion" fashion, the mainstream sports media which Jazz fans have felt so marginalized by, is now accepted as the truth teller.

Welcome to Utah.
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"Innocent until proven guilty" applies to courts of law, not to public opinion. It's a principle oft quoted but seldom practiced.

That said, I think it's foolish to boo D-Will. He didn't do anything intentionally to drive Sloan away. He and Sloan butted heads, but so too did Sloan butt heads with Malone and other players over the years, at times likely as bad or worse than with Williams. Sloan appears to have decided that it's not worth it anymore. Sloan's relationship with his players hasn't changed; what's changed is Sloan's willingness to grind through it like he used to.

I don't know whether booing Deron will drive him away, but I can guarantee that as a franchise we we will be materially worse off without Deron (or without a superstar) than we would be with a slightly used up iconic coach and no Deron.
 
When Deron gets boo'd Vinylone will be like the girl who cried after Justin Bieber got boo'd at the Knicks game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X_h-ZIchPs
 
Well this thread really is a mute point and irregardless if DWill is a premadonna.

Okay with that out of the way I was at the game and if he was boo'd I couldn't hear it and on the way in I saw signs made that supported DWill. At the end of the game there was plenty of boo's but that was for the teams lack of anything resembling basketball or hustle not for DWill.
 
* moot
* regardless
* prima donna
 
cowhide said:
This is really at the heart of the DW hate. Many fans will never except the fact that DW is not John Stockton. They are two different players. But to marginalize DW accomplishments is ridiculous.. DW has done some things Stockton never did and vice versa. If the Jazz were to lose DW I am sorry it would set them back a decade before they would be any good. And other thing, Stockton wasn't perfect, he never won a championship, had plenty of turnovers and lost games for the Jazz. Every player does. As the years pass there seems to be Jazz fans that forget the fact that Sloan and Stockton were not perfect while demonizing DW for everything they preceive he does wrong. DW isn't perfect but stop comparing him to a fictional idea of John Stockton.
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Wow, so you marginalized John Stockton instead. You seriously think we'd be set back WHOLE decade if we lost DWILL?? Did we get set back a WHOLE decade when we lost 2 HOF players that can be argued as the best at their position? I like Dwill but if your saying he is better than Stockton, you're worse than a rockets fan. :)
 
Every time we hear from Deron, it's when he is being interviewed by the media. He treats the media like a jerk so it's pretty easy to assume he is a jerk. When you treat people like jerks, and something happens like this, people assume he was being a jerk to Jerry. He is as good as gone when his contract is up. We might as well trade him now while we can still get something for him.
 
Utah and racism - come awn now

I just spent 5 years in Vegas (the melting pot of the nation-nobody is from there). Two black families are among my closest friends that live there. I took one of their kids to a father/sons camp since his dad had to work! My family has also had 5 Japanese exchange students live with us, had the Arab-Muslims from work over for dinner shortly after 9/11, and fed dinner to many Weber State football players of various minority backgrounds. I could go on.

Stereotypical comments about huge groups of people without a SOLID link are in terribly bad taste!

Yes there are racists in Utah, but not an abnormal amount, and it is definitely not playing a part in how Dwill is treated any more than it would in any other state.

In the words of a famous black man:
...but you don't have to take my word for it.
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Here is the top hit when searching 'utah racism'
https://www.city-data.com/forum/utah/50912-utah-racist.html
If you pay attention to comments from minorities that have live in or visited Utah, it's pretty spot on.

Here is the only poll I could find: (I admit its from a non-credible source)

[+] ballot by Kentucky_Yankee
ACTIVE Feb 24,2005 - Fri Feb 24, 06
Alabama...................................167
Mississippi.................................165
Texas.......................................115
Massachusetts............................54
Illinois........................................41
California....................................40
Georgia......................................39
South Carolina.............................34
the state with the most black in it..33
Virginia.......................................30
New York....................................25
Ohio...........................................25
Florida........................................22
Kentucky....................................22
Louisiana.....................................21
Indiana.......................................19
Pennsylvania...............................19
Arkansas....................................17
Idaho.........................................17
Utah..........................................17
Michigan.....................................16
Tennessee..................................16
Missouri......................................15
Wisconsin...................................14
West Virginia...............................13
Maryland....................................11
Vermont.....................................10
Minnesota....................................8
Montana......................................8
North Carolina...............................8
Confusion.....................................8
Connecticut..................................7
Maine..........................................7
Nebraska......................................7
New Hampshire..............................7
New Jersey...................................7
Wyoming......................................7
Arizona........................................6
Colorado......................................6
Hawaii.........................................6
Kansas.........................................6
Oklahoma......................................6
Washington...................................6
puerto rico....................................6
Iowa............................................5
The Good Ones..............................5
Denial...........................................5
Alaska..........................................4
Oregon.........................................4
Nevada........................................3
North Dakota................................3
Rhode Island.................................3
South Dakota................................3
Delaware......................................2
New Mexico..................................2
Bliss............................................0
Ignorance.....................................0
Not a State but Wash. D.C..............0
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https://www.bestandworst.com/r/68610.htm

/rant
 
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