Yes Means Yes law passed

[Gameface]

As I said, if you're too drunk to offer consent, you're too drunk to ask for it.

My understanding is that, even with foggy memories, people know the difference between when they have consented and when they have been raped.

So are they both guilty of rape under the yes means yes law?

 

[moevillini]

As I said, if you're too drunk to offer consent, you're too drunk to ask for it.

My understanding is that, even with foggy memories, people know the difference between when they have consented and when they have been raped.

GoPro

for (nearly) indisputable evidence

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Nobody, but the feminazis always blame the guy.

Damn all these feminazis complaining about being sexually assaulted. Why, don't they know their place?

 

[Gameface]

GoPro

for (nearly) indisputable evidence

Just be sure to back it up on the iCloud, just to be extra safe.

 

[One Brow]

So are they both guilty of rape under the yes means yes law?

My understanding is that rape would involve, at the very least, sufficient wherewithal to understand that a person has not consented.

 

[Dr. Jones]

As I said, if you're too drunk to offer consent, you're too drunk to ask for it.

My understanding is that, even with foggy memories, people know the difference between when they have consented and when they have been raped.

You have mentioned 'asking for consent' more than once now.. is that a literal thing?

Consent, imo, is the continuation of a (hopefully) pleasurable beginning to a mutually beneficial (again, hopefully) conclusion.

Rather than a, "hi, is it okay with you if I sex you?"

 

[One Brow]

You have mentioned 'asking for consent' more than once now.. is that a literal thing?

Consent, imo, is the continuation of a (hopefully) pleasurable beginning to a mutually beneficial (again, hopefully) conclusion.

Rather than a, "hi, is it okay with you if I sex you?"

There is such a thing as unambiguous, non-verbal consent; there is also such a thing as people just doing stuff and not caring if they have consent from another person.

I think humans are sufficiently creative that they can incorporate consent into their sexual activities without losing the romance.

 

[Gameface]

My understanding is that rape would involve, at the very least, sufficient wherewithal to understand that a person has not consented.

So wait, if I'm so drunk I don't know what's going on and I force myself on a woman I haven't raped her?

See, this law is very troublesome. I mean if they want to change the name to "You raped her if at any time before during or after the act she decides it was rape and there is no defense to her accusation" then at least we'd be being honest.

Both men and women hook up after having a few too many drinks... like a lot. Some people function pretty well way past the legal limit, even though their judgement and their ability to recall events the next morning is impaired. Both men and women wake up the next morning wondering what they've done and sometimes look over and think "oh hell no I didn't do that!" Only men typically don't call that rape and now we have a law that allows people to call it just that.

I sat in during a statement from a guy in the Navy who had been accused of rape while on a port visit. I read the victims statement (she was interviewed by a female master-at-arms). This guy was terrified, but he was also crushed and hurt. He liked this woman. He didn't think he had raped her.

Both their statements start out pretty much the same. They were out with a larger group at a bar. When they left she came with him back to his hotel room (against our ship's rules for a male and female to share a hotel room during overseas liberty). That's where she says she can't remember anything else. He says they get there and she's getting touchy and says "I'm so horny right now." According to him she initiated the sexual activity. They had sex. She wakes up early, gathers her things, goes back to the ship and files a report. She mentions how she never would have consented...because she's married.

Unfortunately, in this case the victim was punished for violating the liberty policy. He was punished for the same thing and each one of their "liberty buddies" were punished for allowing their "buddy" to violate liberty policy. But the rape charges were not pursued.

Anyway, this guy was pretty sure he didn't rape anyone. If this was a yes means yes situation then he's a rapist.

 

[fishonjazz]

My understanding is that rape would involve, at the very least, sufficient wherewithal to understand that a person has not consented.

Do you ever just simply answer a yes/no question with a yes or a no?

 

[Surely]

Do you ever just simply answer a yes/no question with a yes or a no?

Sometimes.

 

[dodo]

So wait, if I'm so drunk I don't know what's going on and I force myself on a woman I haven't raped her?

See, this law is very troublesome. I mean if they want to change the name to "You raped her if at any time before during or after the act she decides it was rape and there is no defense to her accusation" then at least we'd be being honest.

Both men and women hook up after having a few too many drinks... like a lot. Some people function pretty well way past the legal limit, even though their judgement and their ability to recall events the next morning is impaired. Both men and women wake up the next morning wondering what they've done and sometimes look over and think "oh hell no I didn't do that!" Only men typically don't call that rape and now we have a law that allows people to call it just that.

I sat in during a statement from a guy in the Navy who had been accused of rape while on a port visit. I read the victims statement (she was interviewed by a female master-at-arms). This guy was terrified, but he was also crushed and hurt. He liked this woman. He didn't think he had raped her.

Both their statements start out pretty much the same. They were out with a larger group at a bar. When they left she came with him back to his hotel room (against our ship's rules for a male and female to share a hotel room during overseas liberty). That's where she says she can't remember anything else. He says they get there and she's getting touchy and says "I'm so horny right now." According to him she initiated the sexual activity. They had sex. She wakes up early, gathers her things, goes back to the ship and files a report. She mentions how she never would have consented...because she's married.

Unfortunately, in this case the victim was punished for violating the liberty policy. He was punished for the same thing and each one of their "liberty buddies" were punished for allowing their "buddy" to violate liberty policy. But the rape charges were not pursued.

Anyway, this guy was pretty sure he didn't rape anyone. If this was a yes means yes situation then he's a rapist.

Interesting. I am sure there are plenty of legal precedence that deal with intoxicated people giving consent (not only for sexual encounters). For example, do cops read Miranda rights to people too drunk to understand them? If so, has there ever been a case where someone can claim they were too drunk to understand that anything they say can be used against them? I am sure the answer is a google away but i am too lazy.

 

[One Brow]

So wait, if I'm so drunk I don't know what's going on and I force myself on a woman I haven't raped her?

I'm not sure. How do you get so drunk you can't even stand up by yourself (as happens in these cases), yet have the ability to force yourself on anyone? Anywhere you draw the line, there will be border cases.

See, this law is very troublesome. I mean if they want to change the name to "You raped her if at any time before during or after the act she decides it was rape and there is no defense to her accusation" then at least we'd be being honest.

The number of women who consent to sex, and then afterward decide they were raped, is very, very small.

... and sometimes look over and think "oh hell no I didn't do that!" Only men typically don't call that rape and now we have a law that allows people to call it just that.

Women don't typically call that rape, either.

I sat in during a statement from a guy in the Navy who had been accused of rape while on a port visit. I read the victims statement (she was interviewed by a female master-at-arms). This guy was terrified, but he was also crushed and hurt. He liked this woman. He didn't think he had raped her.

Both their statements start out pretty much the same. They were out with a larger group at a bar. When they left she came with him back to his hotel room (against our ship's rules for a male and female to share a hotel room during overseas liberty). That's where she says she can't remember anything else. He says they get there and she's getting touchy and says "I'm so horny right now." According to him she initiated the sexual activity. They had sex. She wakes up early, gathers her things, goes back to the ship and files a report. She mentions how she never would have consented...because she's married.

Let's be clear:
1) The woman endangered her marriage by admitting she was in that room.
2) The woman subjected herself to some very negative responses by making the allegation.
3) We have only the guy's word of enthusiastic consent, a man raised in a culture where we are taught that good girls say no, and men are supposed to keep trying until they say yes.

What do you think the woman stood to gin by making her allegation, if she did not believe she had been raped?

Unfortunately, in this case the victim was punished for violating the liberty policy. He was punished for the same thing and each one of their "liberty buddies" were punished for allowing their "buddy" to violate liberty policy. But the rape charges were not pursued.

Anyway, this guy was pretty sure he didn't rape anyone. If this was a yes means yes situation then he's a rapist.

If you believe the guy's story, he's not a rapist. An inability to remember consent is not a lack of consent.

I've had sex with my wife when she consented, yet was so drunk she could not remember it the next day. Not once has she said that she didn't want to have sex the previous night.