If Hayward Leaves?

[fishonjazz]

If Hayward and Hill both leave(seems like Hill is tied to Hayward, from what he said at exit interviews), I see 3 options really:

1. Retool around Gobert, trying to win as many games as possible - you try to sign players in free agency that will help win right away - Danilo Gallinari, try to trade for Bledsoe using Favors + stuff, opportunistically pluck free agents and other players via trade that will shore up the rotation(Wilson Chandler comes to mind(might have to give up a pick for him), maybe get Lin or Deron or Teodosic as a PG.

2. Rebuild around Gobert - clean everything you can but Gobert for future assets(This would include JJ, Favors, possibly Hood). Give Dante the ball as a PG and tell him it's his team now, let him see what he can do. No stops, no leash, just go berserk, we don't care if he makes a ton of mistakes, we don't care if we lose a ton of games... au contraire - if Dante's PG skills improve while we are losing a ton of games, that's good. Resign Ingles with the idea of selling him for future assets at next trade deadline. Gobert wants bigger offensive role? He want's post ups? Or isos? Maybe the ocasional 3 pointer? Sure... give it to him. Same as with Dante - results don't matter, lets see what he can develop and what he can't, test his limits offensively, especially if it leads to less wins. Try to get the best pick we can. The top of next year's draft seems pretty good. Doncic, Porter Jr... Bamba. Try to get one of the premier ones. If Gobert gets nicked around All-star break... shut him down. Give Bolomboy(or our rookies) the chance to shine. Pick all 4 rookies and give them legit playing time. See what you have in them and if any of them shows surprising developmental spurt or skills.

3. Burn it to the ground (use Gobert to jumpstart the rebuild) - see "Rebuild around Gobert", but in this case in addition to the other moves, trade Gobert for the bank. If Boston for example gives up Fultz + BKN 2018 for Gobert(he's pretty much the perfect missing piece for them, he covers all their weaknesses and makes them strengths - elite rebounding, interior defense, help/weakside defense). Start from zero for the Jazz, but with two high end assets(Fultz + BKN pick) + possibly high Jazz pick in next year's draft).

I honestly have no idea which one I prefer. I think the one that I hate the most is the retool option. I don't think we will be able to retool quickly and well enough to make it worth it. I don't see a retool path that would make us as good as we were this year for the duration of Gobert's contract and in 3 years we will have to start thinking about keeping Gobert, having wasted 3 years of his prime on the tradmill.

In any case, to me Hayward leaving will be devastating for this team. He is not replacable right now, IMO...

Good post

 

[Coach Ellis]

It would suck if Hayward leaves now. Clearly a miscalculation by the front office if that happens.

IF it does. . . you re-build around Rudy Gobert. Try to pry an All Star guy from somewhere and keep developing your young talent. Jazz definitely take a step back that way, but it forces them to see what Exum, Hood and Lyles can do if they have to play big minutes.

There's no way in Hell that I trade Gobert or sign mediocre free agents to big contracts. Jazz will need to play Moneyball at that point and get bang for their buck. Don't waste it like Portland did.

 

[green]

He only lost 1st team by 4 points and 9 people didn't vote for him at all.

Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app

Exactly, like you said, if he's in LA or Boston, he is unanimous first team.

Now, Fish says he made it, and that's all that matters and he's partly right. BUT, for a fringe All NBA player like Hayward, market becomes HUGE.

If Hayward and Gobert were in LA or NY or Boston, they would have both been All Stars, probably starters and both would have made All NBA.

 

[green]

Hayward won't leave. Why? Because it would be taking less money and a lesser role to go to a less stable and unknown environment for maybe (and it's really big *** MAYBE) a teeny tiny better chance to win a championship. The Jazz have a star at center, a 50 win team, a young and still growing team, plenty of assets to improve the squad via trade and the draft. There's no reason for him to leave right now.

Can we just /thread?

This has been shown to be false over and over.

 

[Stoked]

Grabbing this years #1, our own and GSWs 1st rounders, having our own high draft pick in 2018 plus Brooklyn and OKCs 2018 first rounders is a hell of a way to start real quick.

Having said that I HATE the idea of trading Gobert. But a smart FO has to look at all the options and chose the best one. Even if it is painful.

Disclaimer: I am not saying trading GObert is the best path but if it is then you need to consider it.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Not if he leaves. If the Jazz go on another lottery run. I'm not ready to start rooting for losses again just yet.

I wont stop being a fan but if we go into a full rebuild my interest will go down. It is hard to watch the regular season knowing you are trying to lose to get a good pick. I watched plenty of tank seasons and would have a hard time watching another. I would definitely not watch every game like I have been for years.

Good news is most the fans base feels the same and the Jazz know that. They cant afford a full rebuild again, they would lose too many fans that they are just barely getting back.

Hayward probably wont leave but if he does they will re-tool the roster and keep making a run around Gobert.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I wont stop being a fan but if we go into a full rebuild my interest will go down. It is hard to watch the regular season knowing you are trying to lose to get a good pick. I watched plenty of tank seasons and would have a hard time watching another. I would definitely not watch every game like I have been for years.

Good news is most the fans base feels the same and the Jazz know that. They cant afford a full rebuild again, they would lose too many fans that they are just barely getting back.

Hayward probably wont leave but if he does they will re-tool the roster and keep making a run around Gobert.

Don't you just love the fans who only watch the team when they're good?


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[Ron Mexico]

Ummmm. Utah is not a better team than Boston.
Utah beat a better team than anyone Boston beat in the playoffs. Utah had about the same record as Boston but in a much harder conference. Also Jazz had the most injured starters in the NBA and still did this. They also had 4 starters injured in the playoffs and outperformed anything Boston did. Jazz would have crushed the Wizards. Boston would have lost to Chicago if Rondo didnt get hurt. They got lucky not to become a #1 seed losing to an #8 seed.
I hope he likes Utah a lot. I mean a lot. To take less money and less wins to stay? He must LOVE Utah.
Its not less money you got this part mixed up. He can sign any option for the Jazz he wants and make at least the same amount of money or more
I get that he likes Snyder. Boston has more money and more wins. Oh, and a coach he likes. In fact, a coach that he competed for championships with (which he hasn't done with Snyder).
Teammates? Sure. I hope so.
He has played longer with Snyder and developed more under him. He likes Snyder. He has made an all-star appearance under him, gone to the NBA Playoffs with him which is much better than some college thing
What would tell you that his wife wants to live here? Her San Diego home that she lives in? (Mormons are so weird about this. Utah kind of sucks as far as living goes.)
Im not mormon so I am not sure what that has to do with it but Utah is a great place and his wife enjoys it here. Its okay not to like Utah but many people do and I have yet to meet anyone that is not in awe of the beauty of Utah and SLC.

Here is some of Robyns closest friends which are other players wifes
https://www.instagram.com/p/BT7YJ3qAILq/?taken-by=robynmhayward&hl=en
They spend time in San Diego now but their house is in Utah where they spent most of the season. Robyn loves going to a gun range near her house
So you as usual are wrong on this one
Raising a family in Utah? You must not be a one percenter. It's the same everywhere. Gated communities, private schools, etc. Again, weird mormon belief about Utah from person who has most likely never been anywhere else nice.
No its not the same but even if it is perception is everything and Hayward and his wife have said many times what a great place Utah is and a great place to raise a family. They have said it specifically about their family.
The money is not more.
It is more, not a lot more but it is more. He also has a chance to sign a 1and1 and try and make the all-nba next year and then it is a ton more. He also has more option for length of contract and when he can extend with the Jazz over other teams. He can also sign an extra year as security here in case he is not a max player in 5 years.
Why would you want more years? This article shows where less years is a lot more money in the long run.
Legacy from one team? Uhhh...no one cares except for small market fan. Hayward's legacy will be much greater winning a title in Boston than battling for four place in the West.
No he will always be in the shadow of greater players in Boston, even if he wins there he will be the second fiddle. He will never be a legacy in Boston even if he wins. No one is build a statue of him and honoring him like Utah has Stockton and Malone and they never even won a championship. Imagine if he does. Even if he doesnt he will be honored and loved here. In Boston he will be hated if they dont win a championship.
Winning in Utah is more appreciated? What, by less fans? lol. ok.
As the main Pro sport its a bigger deal. Boston cares way less about their NBA team it is in the shadow of the Pats.
He ain't winning a title in Utah without a third star. Sorry. If John and Karl couldn't do it, I don't see how Hayward and Gobert will in a NBA where stars congregate.
He will be a star and leader in Boston. And with Boston taking Fultz, Isaiah Thomas won't be as vital to Boston's success.
Fultz like most rookies wont help you win for a few years. If they keep Fultz than their title run is in the Future past Haywards prime
Jazz have a great plan? Hoping Exum pans out? Boston has a plan. Utah has a prayer.
They have said they plan to retain their players and make a move to compliment their squad. Pretty solid plan for a team that was close
There is nothing that says Snyder's offense can be elite.
Except statistics...Jazz were a top 10 offense and defense for most of the season. They slipped to #12 but missing as many starters as the Jazz did that is amazing.
If they stay healthy their offense is at least in the top 10 but probably much higher. They were higher than Boston for most of the season. Its also hard to compare since Boston plays a much easier schedule in the East. They also had a much easier playoff battles against two teams that Jazz might have swept that Boston struggled with.
Role Models? They can join him in Boston as he competes for titles.
Boston isnt competing for titles unless they make another major move. So they are worse off than the Jazz. Jazz can also make a trade/move and they will be the better team still
Unknown? That usually hurts the home team and doesn't help it. Grass is always greener and so on.
Fans appreciate him? He will get that anywhere.
Less criticism? Sure, but he's not afraid of that.
Sure, he was an All Star here. He would have been one in 2016 in Boston with their media advantage. He will be one in Boston a year longer than in Utah as well.
Better choice? Utah has less wins, less ability to get better, and equal money and a GM that isn't as good as Ainge. It isn't better here.
Utah had about the same wins on an much less lucky injured roster with fluke injuries against much harder competition in the East. Boston had to get lucky to get out of the first round against an 8th seed. Jazz have better players to make trades with if they want. The only thing Boston has that is better is the #1 pick. Hayward doesnt care about rookies, no NBA vet does. If Boston trades it (which is dumb) and re-aranges their roster quite a bit then they could be better. But that is a lot of ifs.

Gobert is better than anyone on their team. Their best player is IT who is a ball hog and undersized. He is great at times but not carrying you anywhere so they would have to trade their best player to be better than the Jazz. Their next best player is getting old and slowing down and on a crappy contract that is going to hurt them. Then they have a bunch of role players.

Try harder.
Another swing and a miss from Green, good try though.

Ill ask again are you going to stick around once the Jazz re-sign Hayward and have another awesome season like last year? I mean you thought we were going to suck and didnt, you didnt like Hayward or anything the Jazz were doing. You think the Front Office is cheap and messed up this team. Then all of a sudden the Jazz have an awesome season and you disappear. No posts in the playoffs... Nothing to complain about then? Suddenly you are back when something bad could potentially happen. Sounds like you only want bad things for the Jazz or to complain about them and hope you are right.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Don't you just love the fans who only watch the team when they're good?


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I dont blame them, they are just casual fans and sports are not that big of a deal. Watching sports is make to be fun and entertaining. Make sports fun for you. Who cares about the rest. I am the type who sticks to their team no matter what but I like that, if you dont, cool. People do take sports too serious.

 

[mellow]

Even if he stays it will probably just be on a two year contract with his option for a third year, so we would have to redo this drama in may of 2019.

The nba players and league treats fans so badly. They take for granted people and their money will just keep coming....

 

[Diamond77]

Even if he stays it will probably just be on a two year contract with his option for a third year, so we would have to redo this drama in may of 2019.

If he stays two or three more seasons the Jazz must go all in to try to win the championship.

 

[fishonjazz]

Exactly, like you said, if he's in LA or Boston, he is unanimous first team.

Now, Fish says he made it, and that's all that matters and he's partly right. BUT, for a fringe All NBA player like Hayward, market becomes HUGE.

If Hayward and Gobert were in LA or NY or Boston, they would have both been All Stars, probably starters and both would have made All NBA.

You make assumptions.
Let's look at facts. Look at the all nba teams. Then look at the city that each player plays in. I see some large markets, and some small markets, and some middle sized markets. I see okc, utah, cleveland, San antonio, Milwaukee, oakland, new orleans, toronto, DC being represented. (I don't see any Knicks or Lakers doe)

Boston won over 50 games and is in the eastern conference finals. They had one player make all nba on the 2nd team (and he put up crazy good numbers.... hell first team type numbers). So did the jazz. Avery Bradley had a fantastic season. Left off. Horford had a great season (according to posts from cy anyway, I admittedly haven't looked at his numbers) and was left off. And that is with their team having great success even.

I consider Los Angeles to be a big market. Cp3 didn't make all nba.

 

[fishonjazz]

I wont stop being a fan but if we go into a full rebuild my interest will go down. It is hard to watch the regular season knowing you are trying to lose to get a good pick.

What if they didn't have to try to lose to get a good pick?

What if they had this year's number 1 pick locked up and next year's top 3 pick without ever tanking? (2 very good drafts at the top from what I hear)

 

[Stoked]

If he stays two or three more seasons the Jazz must go all in to try to win the championship.

Jazz need to go all in now and pitch that to Hayward. I'd prefer them to go after a stretch 4 or a SG and move Hood full time to the bench. Trade Burks. Re-sign Hill

Gobert/Withey
Favors/Lyles/Bolomboy*
Hayward/JJ/Ingles
New SG/Hood/Ingles*
Hill/Exum/Neto

* - Or trade Favors and Keep Hood as the starting SG with Ingles as his main back up.

That is 14 players. Then add to rookies and the Jazz have 16 of their 17 spots filled next season.

Any ideas on a stretch 4 or SG that can be had via free agency or trade?

 

[fishonjazz]

Ill ask again are you going to stick around once the Jazz re-sign Hayward and have another awesome season like last year? I mean you thought we were going to suck and didnt, you didnt like Hayward or anything the Jazz were doing. You think the Front Office is cheap and messed up this team. Then all of a sudden the Jazz have an awesome season and you disappear. No posts in the playoffs... Nothing to complain about then? Suddenly you are back when something bad could potentially happen. Sounds like you only want bad things for the Jazz or to complain about them and hope you are right.

Green gonna green

 

[Quin's Murderface]

Even if he stays it will probably just be on a two year contract with his option for a third year, so we would have to redo this drama in may of 2019.

The nba players and league treats fans so badly. They take for granted people and their money will just keep coming....

I think the 1+1 or 2+1 contract is my least favorite option. It will put all kinds of pressure on the FO to keep making win-now moves, which often end up being bad moves or reaches. If he signs for 4 or 5 years the team can continue to build the right way. It might make the team take a small step back next season, but they could conceivably build toward a legit run starting in year 3 and 4 once the GSW team has to break up enough to be threatened.

 

[Stoked]

You make assumptions.
Let's look at facts. Look at the all nba teams. Then look at the city that each player plays in. I see some large markets, and some small markets, and some middle sized markets. I see okc, utah, cleveland, San antonio, Milwaukee, oakland, new orleans, toronto, DC being represented. (I don't see any Knicks or Lakers doe)

Boston won over 50 games and is in the eastern conference finals. They had one player make all nba on the 2nd team (and he put up crazy good numbers.... hell first team type numbers). So did the jazz. Avery Bradley had a fantastic season. Left off. Horford had a great season (according to posts from cy anyway, I admittedly haven't looked at his numbers) and was left off. And that is with their team having great success even.

I consider Los Angeles to be a big market. Cp3 didn't make all nba.

The team you play for matters very little on all nba votes. It comes into play for all star starters.

Well done Fish

 

[Ron Mexico]

What if they didn't have to try to lose to get a good pick?

What if they had this year's number 1 pick locked up and next year's top 3 pick without ever tanking? (2 very good drafts at the top from what I hear)

Like I said ill be a fan no matter what. Ill just watch less and be a little less passionate for a couple years. Young players developing can be fun to watch but also frustrating. Obviously getting a #1 pick and a top 3 pick really helps but that team will still suck for a few years. I also do not see Boston trading a #1 pick and a top 3 pick for Gobert if we went that route. I also am positive Jazz wont go that route, they cant afford to suck for years again.

I like our future regardless of Hayward's decision. But Hayward makes the team a lot better and it makes it a lot easier to compete. But Gobert is a star and I think his drive could lead him to be a top 10(he might be close here) or even top 5 player in this league. We still have yet to see what a healthy Gobert can do in the playoffs. I also think Exums future is very bright. He is at worst an above average starter in this league if he stay healthy and still has the potential to be a star as well. Lyles could turn things around. If Hood can get healthy and stay healthy I think he will become consistent. If Hayward left I think he could make a jump. Favors could be a top 5 PF if he actually gets healthy again. We have a bunch of picks and have had good luck with late picks. Things are looking up either way.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Anyone on here listening to ESPN 700?

 

[JAZZGASM]

The team you play for matters very little on all nba votes. It comes into play for all star starters.

Well done Fish

I agree to an extent. Green made it due to the ezposure GS gets. Hayward deserved it over him. The other forwarda selected are accurate IMO, although Hayward had jist as good of a season as Butler IMO.