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How long are you going to tollerate losing?

scootsy said:
here is my question. if our core + awful scrubs only win us 35 games this year and we get a top-5 pick, do you really think the rookie we draft next year is worth 15+ wins individually? this rebuild is just beginning and it's a 2-4 year process. we will suck for a while unless our core is acutally better than we think, which means we won't be ending up with a top-5 pick next year.
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No, a top 5 pick probably won't get you 15 wins in a year.

BUT, two top 3 picks in their 4th and 5th seasons, a top 10 pick in his 5th season, a top 12 pick in his 4th season, a top 9 pick in his second season, AND 30 million dollars in money, AND a top 5 pick AND a new coach will get you 15 wins.
 
green said:
I am not changing the argument. I am saying the both GS and Utah have put themselves into a position to lose this year. Plain and simple.
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Utah shed bad contracts.
Utah made a play to get valuable assets (draft picks).
Utah made room to let the future play, play together, and play a lot.

A by-product of all of that will likely be losing. Losing was not the goal.
 
BTW---Milsap officially signed and introduced in ATL. Jefferson officially signed in Charlotte.

Waiting on Jazz presser to introduce the new guys.
 
mellow said:
BTW---Milsap officially signed and introduced in ATL. Jefferson officially signed in Charlotte.

Waiting on Jazz presser to introduce the new guys.
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Can't wait for the awkward question...

So what does Jefferson and Beindrens bring to the Jazz??
 
Just a note: I watched GSW's last game that season. It was a close game throughout. They had a chance to win it in the last minute. But then they stopped playing. Literally. The players stopped all attempts at defense and started chucking up random 3's. They TRIED to lose that game in the end, and did. I don't think the Jazz would ever do that.
 
PKM said:
Utah shed bad contracts.
Utah made a play to get valuable assets (draft picks).
Utah made room to let the future play, play together, and play a lot.

A by-product of all of that will likely be losing. Losing was not the goal.
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So, Miller saying our playoff success hasn't justified the picks we have gotten, then gutting all five starters isn't creating a goal of losing for one year? Then taking on terrible players to be your bench players? Everything this team has done has screamed the goal this year is to lose. Develop guys along the way, but Utah wants a top 5 pick next year.
 
Jeditiger said:
Just a note: I watched GSW's last game that season. It was a close game throughout. They had a chance to win it in the last minute. But then they stopped playing. Literally. The players stopped all attempts at defense and started chucking up random 3's. They TRIED to lose that game in the end, and did. I don't think the Jazz would ever do that.
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The Arizona Cardinals played to the end. They went into the last week of the year tied with Indy for the worst team in football. They went out and won their last game, giving the #1 pick to the Colts. Had they lost, they would have gotten the #1 pick. Who did the Colts draft?

Peyton Manning.

Which team made the right decision?
 
green said:
So, Miller saying our playoff success hasn't justified the picks we have gotten, then gutting all five starters isn't creating a goal of losing for one year? Then taking on terrible players to be your bench players? Everything this team has done has screamed the goal this year is to lose. Develop guys along the way, but Utah wants a top 5 pick next year.
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No. I absolutely do not think this has been an orchestration to lose.
/thread
 
green said:
The Arizona Cardinals played to the end. They went into the last week of the year tied with Indy for the worst team in football. They went out and won their last game, giving the #1 pick to the Colts. Had they lost, they would have gotten the #1 pick. Who did the Colts draft?

Peyton Manning.

Which team made the right decision?
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While I agree that there are different sides to the philosophy of this discussion. But remember, Ryan Leaf was also supposed to be a sure thing in that draft as well. The draft is a gamble. There are virtually no "sure things". So, do you sacrifice organizational integrity just to take a gamble? That's never been the Jazz' or the Miller's philosophy, and I don't see it changing any time soon. And that's Just one reason I love the Jazz.
 
Jeditiger said:
While I agree that there are different sides to the philosophy of this discussion. But remember, Ryan Leaf was also supposed to be a sure thing in that draft as well. The draft is a gamble. There are virtually no "sure things". So, do you sacrifice organizational integrity just to take a gamble? That's never been the Jazz' or the Miller's philosophy, and I don't see it changing any time soon. And that's Just one reason I love the Jazz.
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I don't buy this argument at all. It is a common one, and one that is used a lot, but if Leaf was such a sure thing, why did Arizona trade that pick?
 
Stoked said:
And I love that some people are deluded enough to be unable to see the difference. Jazz are building on their youth and planning for the future. But they will go out and try to win every game. Obviously they wont but they will try.

GS on the other hand was going out and intentionally trying to lose games. They made specific in game adjustments in an effort to lose.

There is a difference. I don't give a damn who tells me it is the same. It is not, period.
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Can't rep. Or I would. Same reason as PKM.
 
PKM said:
No. I absolutely do not think this has been an orchestration to lose.
/thread
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Really? Then why would Ty tell the organization that the path they were taking was not beneficial to his long term job security? Why did he say, that even with the moves they are making, he will be the good soldier and lie on the grenade this year in hopes that his employment will continue? Those don't sound like words a head coach would say of a team whose goal was to win as many games as possible.

If the Jazz were trying to win, if their goal was to make the playoffs this year, we would not have let Millsap walk, we would not have traded for Jefferson and Biedrens, we would have resigned Foye, etc.

It's ok. This is how the NBA works. Boston did it and they ended up winning titles because of it. OKC did it and they are now competing for titles. SA did THE SAME THING AS GS, and they are competing/winning titles. It's not the end of the world. So what, the Jazz play the same game other teams play. It's ok. The good news is, this will make us much better in the long run, just as it did for GS.

/thread
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Ahh... had enough of this discussion... we'll just have to see what actually happens during the season I guess.

Let's put it this way, I wouldn't be surprised Favors, Kanter & Burke started getting "DNP" at the end of the season...
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Short of injury, I'd be all of shocked, pissed and embarrassed to be a Jazz fan if that happened.
 
The difference is that the Jazz will try to win with what they have, while GSW actually tried to lose games. If you think the Jazz are going to try to lose games, then I completely disagree with you.
 
I haven't read anything in this thread, but I wanted to say that I'm not sold on that "tanking" argument people keep making.

The only way it makes sense is if we get Wiggins. The other players projected between 2-8 are what you'd expect from top talent in a good draft (unless one of them shines above the others this year). And since nobody is going to trade away their no.1 pick, we can probably get a good player if we finish in the 9th or 10th spot, and include GSW pick+ something else to move up a few positions in the lottery. That would be the most preferable scenario as we get to see decent basketball, acquire good talent in the draft, and have a chance to improve and make the playoffs the following year, eventually developing into a contender 3-4 years out.
 
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