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Hayward vs Hornacek

Will Hayward ever be better than Hornacek was?

  • Total voters
    29
spycam1 said:
This doesn't seem like a fair question since we aren't talking about the Hayward of now, we're talking about the Hayward of the future; what we think he will be at his best.
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Ok would Hayward, exactly the way he was at the end of last season, have made a difference on our finals teams? Maybe replacing Hornacek, or Russell?
 
I think I would take Hayward if I had to choose. I loved watching Jeff play, But with all the things that Hayward brings to the table from height, athleticism, defensive abilities, along with long-term growth potential I think that dude is going to be special.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app
 
LogGrad98 said:
Ok would Hayward, exactly the way he was at the end of last season, have made a difference on our finals teams? Maybe replacing Hornacek, or Russell?
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Tough call. He's probably not the defender Russell was, but he's still quite good. And he's much better offensively than Russell. I'd go with Hayward.

Horny wasn't in his prime when we went to the Finals....so idk.

The main reason to hesitate taking Hayward over either of them is that he's only played in ONE playoff series.

What are your thoughts?
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Well you're "a spy" and you were asking me about following twitter, etc... so yeah it was a bit weird.
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Yeah, well, my "spy" abilities have enabled me to follow you on twitter already. Found that **** like 6 months ago. Sorry to bring up more weird news.
 
spycam1 said:
Tough call. He's probably not the defender Russell was, but he's still quite good. And he's much better offensively than Russell. I'd go with Hayward.

Horny wasn't in his prime when we went to the Finals....so idk.

The main reason to hesitate taking Hayward over either of them is that he's only played in ONE playoff series.

What are your thoughts?
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Well at least Hayward was decent guarding Kobe... Russell was **** guarding Jordan.
 
spycam1 said:
Tough call. He's probably not the defender Russell was, but he's still quite good. And he's much better offensively than Russell. I'd go with Hayward.

I might even take him over the Hornacek of that time since he wasn't in his prime when we went to the Finals.

The main reason to hesitate taking Hayward over either of them is that he's only played in ONE playoff series.

What are your thoughts?
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I may have a fully homerish view of Hornacek, but I think his numbers support this, and I see him as a truly special player. He was a floor leader as much as Stockton ever was, his shooting was uncanny, and his basketball IQ was off the charts. I went and watched some highlights and he was so crafty. He more than made up for his lack of mobility (knee problems) with the way he moved and he could hit the shot from damn near anywhere on the court with regularity. Not many players averaged 14/5/5 or anything close to that, but he did and was viewed as the 3rd best player on the team. On most teams he would have been the 2nd best, if not best, for most of his career. I agree he was fading as we were entering the finals years, but I still don't think Hayward would be able to equal Horny in those years.

Russell, on the other hand. I think Hayward right now would be Bryon's equal at least. I think Hayward in 2 years will eclipse Russell. Russell was one of those cut from the same cloth as Bowen, although not as elite. A defensive and 3-pt specialist with not a lot in-between. I think Hayward is a much more complete package. I think with Hayward on those finals teams in place of Russell and we have at least one championship, especially if it is the Hayward of 2 years from now, barring injury of course. Even the Hayward of last season I think would have caused the Bulls some fits, as he would have been very hard to guard, and imagine how much he could have done with some freedom to roam and play floor general alongside Stock, Horny and Malone. Haywards cuts to the basekt and ability to actually get to the rim would have been a great complement to the big 3. (Russell did that as well, after all the Jazz offense was built cuts and screens and pnr, but I think Hayward is more explosive and would create more size mismatches than Russell did, without giving anything else up really.) Defensive nightmare that group would have been, no doubt.
 
I don't know why Hayward doesn't have the self esteem that Hornacek had. He is much more prettier than Horny.
 
If Hayward starts rubbing the side of his face before free-throws, he will enter God Mode of the NBA.
 
Hornacek was an amazing passer and floor leader. His basketball IQ was amazing. He was a PG in college and I believe he still holds the assist record at ISU. The addition of Horny added such a dynamic to the back court with Stockton. Two guards that could pass and score. I think people tend to forget just how good of a passer Horny was. We were so spoiled as Jazz fans back then.

Horny and Hayward are completely different players. Hayward is much more athletic and is a better defender due to his physical gifts, but he will never be the shooter, passer or have the basketball IQ that Horny had. Hayward has the potential to be just as good or better than Horny, but he has different strengths. Getting Horny for J Malone was one of the greatest moves the Jazz ever made.

Horny always exceeded peoples expectations. As a walk on in college to a late 2nd round pick in the NBA. He was constantly underrated.
 
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LogGrad98 said:
I may have a fully homerish view of Hornacek, but I think his numbers support this, and I see him as a truly special player. He was a floor leader as much as Stockton ever was, his shooting was uncanny, and his basketball IQ was off the charts. I went and watched some highlights and he was so crafty. He more than made up for his lack of mobility (knee problems) with the way he moved and he could hit the shot from damn near anywhere on the court with regularity. Not many players averaged 14/5/5 or anything close to that, but he did and was viewed as the 3rd best player on the team. On most teams he would have been the 2nd best, if not best, for most of his career. I agree he was fading as we were entering the finals years, but I still don't think Hayward would be able to equal Horny in those years.
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Very nice -- you saved me the trouble of writing a post by writing it first

The answer to the question: "will Hayward be better than Horny" my heart says yes, my mind says no.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I may have a fully homerish view of Hornacek, but I think his numbers support this, and I see him as a truly special player. He was a floor leader as much as Stockton ever was, his shooting was uncanny, and his basketball IQ was off the charts. I went and watched some highlights and he was so crafty. He more than made up for his lack of mobility (knee problems) with the way he moved and he could hit the shot from damn near anywhere on the court with regularity. Not many players averaged 14/5/5 or anything close to that, but he did and was viewed as the 3rd best player on the team. On most teams he would have been the 2nd best, if not best, for most of his career. I agree he was fading as we were entering the finals years, but I still don't think Hayward would be able to equal Horny in those years.

Russell, on the other hand. I think Hayward right now would be Bryon's equal at least. I think Hayward in 2 years will eclipse Russell. Russell was one of those cut from the same cloth as Bowen, although not as elite. A defensive and 3-pt specialist with not a lot in-between. I think Hayward is a much more complete package. I think with Hayward on those finals teams in place of Russell and we have at least one championship, especially if it is the Hayward of 2 years from now, barring injury of course. Even the Hayward of last season I think would have caused the Bulls some fits, as he would have been very hard to guard, and imagine how much he could have done with some freedom to roam and play floor general alongside Stock, Horny and Malone. Haywards cuts to the basekt and ability to actually get to the rim would have been a great complement to the big 3. (Russell did that as well, after all the Jazz offense was built cuts and screens and pnr, but I think Hayward is more explosive and would create more size mismatches than Russell did, without giving anything else up really.) Defensive nightmare that group would have been, no doubt.
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While I agree on the Hornacek point as he was an absolute stud and savant when it came to getting shots off and those shots going in. Loved watching Hornacek play.

On the Russell thought though, I think Hayward is already better than Russell. Hayward's point average last year matched the career high avg for a year for Russell. Hayward has slightly better shooting percentages across the board, passes better, but needs to pick up his rebounding. He blocks more shots but gets less steals. As to the eye test, and based on my possibly faulty memory, Hayward plays better defense. He alters more shots, gets into people's heads more, and affects people more. I seem to remember Russell trying hard and being decent, but I never remembered him as a great defender or anything. So to recap, Hayward is already better than Russell, imho.
 
LogGrad98 said:
That said you have to remember that Hornacek played against players from the 90's. He barely got into the 2000's, and as we know, as the NBA progresses the players get exponentially better, so obviously Hornacek would have a hard time getting into double-digits against today's genetically-engineered NBA super-humans. He might get a rebound or 2 per game just because he plays hard, but please, there is no way he can compete. So essentially, by virtue of the far superior competition today, and how much more superior that competition will be tomorrow, Hayward is already better than Hornacek.

So, yeah.
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Are you arguing with yourself?
Hotttnickkk said:
If Hayward can put together another year of SOLID 3pt shooting... I think I'd be quietly optimistic he could do it.


But for now, it's still a "No" for me.
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three pt. shooting is only one aspect of the game. He doesn't need to shoot 40% just to have a shot at being as good or better. Oh, and by the way in Haywards short career, he's already a 40% three pt. shooter, and a better defender the moment he set foot in the nba. With these two we are comparing apples to oranges. Horny was a sg in a pg's body while Hayward is a pg in a sg's body. You can't just compare there games and say Hayward won't be as good because his passing and floor game aren't as good. Horny was built for that kind of game, and also played around better teammates and in a better offense. Could you imagine Hayward playing with Stockton and Malone in Sloans System. Also is Horny as effective in last years team?
silesian said:
Very nice -- you saved me the trouble of writing a post by writing it first

The answer to the question: "will Hayward be better than Horny" my heart says yes, my mind says no.
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it's yes all the way around for me. Hayward does it all, Horny, as good as he was doesn't do it all. He does some better then Hayward, but doesn't do everything that Hayward can. Hayward isn't there yet, but I think by years end this won't be a question.
 
You guys are way to optimistic when it comes to Hayward. He will be decent player but not All-star like Horny. Sorry to rain some reality on your parade. You need to make poll with question will Hayward ever be as good as Harpring, Hornacek is out of his reach.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Hayward does it all, Horny, as good as he was doesn't do it all. He does some better then Hayward, but doesn't do everything that Hayward can. .
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So what Hayward does better? Block shots from behind? That I agree. Horny even on his gimpy knees at the end of the career was better rebounder, shooter and passer then Hayward. And you people seriously underrating Horny's defense. He was very smart, savy defender who knew how to stay between his man and basket and make them shoot from distance - even Pippen struggled against him despite significant athletic and height advantage. In his best years Horny was better then Hayward at everything but shot blocking and it was not even close. Obviously Hayward still has room to improve but to reach Horny's level? Stop kidding yourself.
 
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