Cappy_Smurf
Well-Known Member
Meanwhile, Devin Booker just put up a 70 point game.
I generally support DL, but he officially blew that pick.
I generally support DL, but he officially blew that pick.
Lyles ceiling
- Thread starter Jamezz
- Start date
Lyles would be a far better looking player if he started on a ****ty team with no threat to minutes.
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Cappy_Smurf
Well-Known Member
By threat, are you talking about a gimpy Derrick Favors? Sorry, but Lyles has had every opportunity this year and has sucked anyway. I mean, he could still be a good player in this league, but Booker was right there when our biggest need was shooting. 80% of this board could have made that pick with their eyes closed. Perfect example of overthinking a pick.
Guarantee you that if Lyles played for Phoneix, he'd be pretty much the same player.
Nah, I think ability to play through mistakes and losing play helps development a lot. There is also much less pressure playing on a team where no one expects to win.
I'm in no way arguing Lyles was the right pick, but their circumstances exaggerate the difference in level of play between the two.
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Agree with everything except the last part. Lyles would put up stats on Phoenix getting 30+ minutes a night with zero pressure.
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Cappy_Smurf
Well-Known Member
There are plenty of guys playing for crappy teams who haven't shown near the promise Booker has. How come Russell and Ingram aren't blowing up in LA? How about all those guys in Philly with no pressure?
Anyway, I've had a wait and see attitude in regards to Lyles/Booker up until now, but that question has been answered at this point. Doesn't mean Lyles couldn't still make up a lot of ground, but as of now, that has to be considered a blown pick. The thing that really makes it sting is the fact that Utah had a hole at Lyles position this year that provided him every chance to step up and prove himself, and all he did was reaffirm how much this team needs a healthy Favors.
Russell had a 40 point game vs the defending champs last week...
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Cappy_Smurf
Well-Known Member
I'd rather have Booker, who the Jazz could've drafted. Russell was never an option, and regardless of a 40 point game, has looked pretty meh considering he plays on a crappy team with no pressure.
Joncolton
Well-Known Member
Booker's 70 is impressive, that being said - it doesn't equal Jordan's 69 or even Karl Malone's 61. Malone for instance shot 21-26 FG, and grabbed 18 boards. Had Malone put up 40 shot attempts like Booker did - he probably would have had 100 points. They played within the system, also the Jazz and Bulls won those games - they didn't lose them.
Also Earl Watson admitted that in the fourth quarter the Suns were fouling on purpose to stop the clock so Booker could get more opportunities to score.
As far as Trey Lyles goes. I think Ryan Anderson is a very realistic and moderate expectation for his ceiling, I think Luis Scola might also make a good comparison. But, in two years, that could be Scola or Mr. Anderson in their prime alongside Gobert. One thing this season has shown, is just how much more effective Rudy is when surrounded by 3 point shooters (playing 4 out). If that's Lyles, Hayward, Hood and Hill (or possibly Bledsoe) - the big thing is they all will compliment each other. I believe Luis Scola's career high night was 44 and he shot something like 20-25, that IMO equals or is better than 70 points on 40 shot attempts - especially when your team wins. I hope Booker does continue to improve all aspects of his game and is the next Klay Thompson or possibly something better, but this feels an awful lot like another hot new youngster named Brandon Jennings who scored 55 points for the Bucks in 2013 - it was his rookie season, and his career high.
Also Earl Watson admitted that in the fourth quarter the Suns were fouling on purpose to stop the clock so Booker could get more opportunities to score.
As far as Trey Lyles goes. I think Ryan Anderson is a very realistic and moderate expectation for his ceiling, I think Luis Scola might also make a good comparison. But, in two years, that could be Scola or Mr. Anderson in their prime alongside Gobert. One thing this season has shown, is just how much more effective Rudy is when surrounded by 3 point shooters (playing 4 out). If that's Lyles, Hayward, Hood and Hill (or possibly Bledsoe) - the big thing is they all will compliment each other. I believe Luis Scola's career high night was 44 and he shot something like 20-25, that IMO equals or is better than 70 points on 40 shot attempts - especially when your team wins. I hope Booker does continue to improve all aspects of his game and is the next Klay Thompson or possibly something better, but this feels an awful lot like another hot new youngster named Brandon Jennings who scored 55 points for the Bucks in 2013 - it was his rookie season, and his career high.
OK....
Booker has looked meh most games too. He just shoots a ton. He had a game where his team let him shoot 40 times and towards the end started fouling to get more possessions to pad his stats.
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Just a few games ago Booker went 4/16 against the Heat and scored 12 points. Amazing game.
He is shooting 18 shot a game to get 21. Crazy.
It's kind of like he is on a ****ty team and him playing like **** has no affect on his minutes so he can shoot as many times and he wants and he will eventually get hot because no one takes the Phoenix Suns seriously.
I think he is going to be a very good player and I wish we drafted him, but there is a reason why he looks so great and Lyles doesnt, and its not all about their ability level (there are other factors).
He is shooting 18 shot a game to get 21. Crazy.
It's kind of like he is on a ****ty team and him playing like **** has no affect on his minutes so he can shoot as many times and he wants and he will eventually get hot because no one takes the Phoenix Suns seriously.
I think he is going to be a very good player and I wish we drafted him, but there is a reason why he looks so great and Lyles doesnt, and its not all about their ability level (there are other factors).
Or the 9/26 game where he scored 28 points against the Nets in a blowout loss. There is no way Lyles could have done that. Impossible.
Booker has had games this season where Lyles would ride the bench for a month if he played that poorly. The situations are completely different.
No one is arguing Lyles is better than Booker dude. Catch up to what's being discussed.
Does leeway to play through mistakes on a bad team with no pressure of losing minutes or pressure of winning games inflate numbers? Is the gap between Lyles/Booker inflated to appear more than the actual gap between Lyles/Booker because of their respective situations. Those are the questions I asked and Cappy Smurf deflected by bringing up **** I didnt even say and basically avoiding facts.