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RIP Robin Williams

  • Thread starter Thread starter JAZZGASM
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His choice will haunt his kids for the rest of their lives, that's who I feel bad for.

I feel bad for them too.

I think everyone does.

I also feel bad for the person that died, that they were in so much pain that they felt they had to die
 
Dude basically told his daughter and any other family/friends that they weren't enough for him to stick it out.

I doubt that this is what he was attempting to say to his family.

In fact he may have left them a note telling them how much he loved them...And he may have loved them with everything that he had.
 
It's sad to see someone whom I loved since I was a kid pass away.
 
I have hurt people I love, friend and family, but that never meant that I didn't love them.

Did robin Williams death hurt his loved ones? Definitely.
Does that mean that he doesn't love them? I don't think so.
 
Depression is a constant battle. A slip of thought sometimes means the end. It's not because they didn't love who or what they left behind, it's because in those "sometimes" everything seems darker than it really is. One can endure so much of those moments till they find the happiness they have been searching for.
 
Good. Don't coddle and encourage bad **** under the mask of pity. You think you are doing them or their family favors by encouraging?
I probably won't ever encourage any one to commit suicide so thankfully we don't have to worry about that
 
Fwiw I'm sorry if my feelings about suicide upset you Frank. Not my intention
 
Suicide is wrong. I think we all agree here. I'm not sure what all this noise about "coddling", or "enabling" suicide is.


I can't call those who commit suicide selfish. The act is in and of itself heinous, and selfish-- but that does NOT mean that the person who committed the act is selfish as well. I find this very fact to be often forgotten, and I think it hinders us from understanding why some take their own lives, and how we can diminish suicide rates collectively.


Depression, and mental diseases altogether are extremely strange phenomena, and well probably never understand them completely. Telling an individual with a mental disorder to use "logic" to realize that one is better off pushing through than taking their own lives isn't effective -- many will quickly realize that their advice will not really diminish suicide rates to any large extent. There is nothing human about summoning the willpower to asphyxiate yourself.

Think about it. Think about how hard it is to wrap a noose around your neck, and walk off a stool. Your brain tells you "uhh dude, wtf, think about what you're doing here".


But what if you're depressed? Schizophrenic? Bipolar? You're expecting these people to have the same innate reasoning as that of an individual with a relatively-normal state of mental health.


Instead of telling people to sack up, we need to figure out what leads people to suicide, why some areas and age demographics suffer from it more than others, and what we can do to curtail this.
 
I can't call those who commit suicide selfish. The act is in and of itself heinous, and selfish-- but that does NOT mean that the person who committed the act is selfish as well. I find this very fact to be often forgotten, and I think it hinders us from understanding why some take their own lives, and how we can diminish suicide rates collectively.


Depression, and mental diseases altogether are extremely strange phenomena, and well probably never understand them completely. Telling an individual with a mental disorder to use "logic" to realize that one is better off pushing through than taking their own lives isn't effective



But what if you're depressed? Schizophrenic? Bipolar? You're expecting these people to have the same innate reasoning as that of an individual with a relatively-normal state of mental health.

Well put
 
Depression, and mental diseases altogether are extremely strange phenomena, and well probably never understand them completely. Telling an individual with a mental disorder to use "logic" to realize that one is better off pushing through than taking their own lives isn't effective

This is a big part of the problem when it comes to dealing with mental illness as a society. At some basic level, perhaps a subconscious one, many people refused to accept that mental illness is real and not something you can just snap out of because you want to. That's how you get morons like Hantlers, whose suggestion for a mentally ill, irrational person is to stop and rationally think about what they're doing. In other words, his solution to mental illness is that you should decide to stop being mentally ill. You can't help but feel that anyone who thinks this way deep down does not believe that there are such things as depression. That you can just decide to not be sad and that's it.
 
what a loss.
another one bites the dust.
I'll miss him.

:(

Would it matter if I wrote it a year from now? I say the same thing about Kurt Cobain, and it's been 20 years. Why gush about him just because he took his life today? Maybe my words were harsh, but that's how I feel about suicide. Talk to someone. Get help. Keep talking. Keep getting help. A friend of mine just told me that he disagreed with me because he was in a spot where suicide seemed to be the best way after his teenage daughter died from a heart disease. He pretty much made my point by saying that he fought through it and carried on. I truly sympathize with you as you know how it feels to have a loved one take their life, but I just can't feel sorry for the person who did the act.
the problem is, you are attributing some characteristics to a sick person, who is suffering too much to make sane decisions.
We are talking about an utterly and totally flawed decision-making, which stems from a sick perception of surroundings.
Robin Williams surely loved his kids. But I don't think he was in a position to take into consideration all these in a healthy manner, but rather concentrated on the bad sides of life.
Depressed individuals do that. They take one issue and make out of it a problem of existential significance, which in turn make them hate themselves or life.
Suicide or homicide look like the best solution sometimes but this decision-making cannot be attributed to that "person" in question, for it is not his real animus.
 
****ing hell this place is full of a bunch of estrogen pumped bitchasses. negs to anyone trolling YB and pos to those who have any semblance of humanity. You ****s are crying pity to those who chose the easy way out instead of rooting for them to find happiness? Give me a ****ing break.

Huh?

There's a [HUGE] difference between sympathy for those who are depressed and enabling ********. You think telling mothers and fathers with depression that it's okay to end it because they are depressed is a good thing?

Sorry for being a dick but this is how I feel about coddling depressed people.

First, I thought you were being hyperbolic and that there was no way you were being serious.

Second, no one is encouraging suicide. I am attempting to get people to put themselves in the other person's shoes to maybe understand a tiny bit what they may be going through. That's all. Of course suicide is a terrible response to a terrible situation, but if you make an attempt to understand the disease then it makes it easier to understand, and out of understanding comes compassion and maybe the support necessary to help the person overcome.

3rd, what exactly does "coddling" mean in this context? Or enabling? See to me this encapsulates everything wrong with mental health care in this world. The stigma attached. It isn't a disease, right? It is just something you can "tough love" someone out of. They don't need care, they need an intervention, right? I mean come on, just think about it. They are just being stupid and not realizing how great life is, why don't they just snap out of it, count their blessings. Why don't they all just choose to be happy, like I did, right? Wow is that a myopic view. Dalamon hit the nail on the head. This is a disease as pervasive and destructive as cancer or aids or anything else that can destroy the body.

It is a disease worse than those, because there is no Dr. House to diagnose it and provide a miracle cure at the last second. It is often untreated due to attitudes like that, as the person tries desperately to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" instead of seeking help. How much good would it do someone with cancer or aids to start doing extra situps every morning, with "friends" telling them to "snap out of it" and "be a man" and "I don't feel that way so you shouldn't choose to feel that way either"? And the worse part about depression is that often the underlying "causes" are never known, cannot be diagnosed, and can only be marginally treated. We are so far behind in this area it is terrifying. We are practically in the stone age compared to other medical advances. We have no way of knowing which chemicals are out of whack and need to be put in whack to help the person. So we try everything, literally, and if nothing works we try combinations of everything, and if that doesn't work we try whatever was the least ****ty, and that is what they often have to live with.

But all too often the words above are all anyone who is depressed hear about it, so they are shamed into not seeking treatment. Man up you estrogen-filled sack of crap!! How can you do this to your family? What the hell is wrong with you, are you a man or not? You just haven't embraced your religion. What kind of ***** hides behind "depression" to get out of doing ****? You sound like my grandpa. Well back in my day we ate **** every day and we liked it! And you will eat **** too or you aren't a real man!

Well the world isn't that cut and dried, and everyone doesn't think like you do, and that throwback attitude is just making a bad situation worse. God help anyone suffering from this anywhere near your personal circle. Get some education on the topic before spouting off next time, you sound like a ****ing banjo-playing backward redneck.

Coddling my ***.
 
If (as I heard, and I cannot confirm it) he suffered from lifelong depression, then I want you to imagine fighting against the impulse to do yourself in EVERY DAY. Do that for 50 years (let's assume it started in adolescence, which is a reasonable assumption) and tell me how cowardly it is to finally give in.
 
I never asked to feel this way. I spent OVER TEN ****ING YEARS hearing from EVERYONE how I just needed to snap out of it. I couldn't understand why I constantly felt like **** after my cancer treatment was over. I thought life should continue just as before, right? I had been the life of the party, always the one to welcome people to the group. I loved to be around people. My wife was drawn to that, it is what pulled us together in the first place really. Now I was more often than not sullen, I didn't want to be around anyone, I wanted to sit by myself in a corner or not go. I couldn't shake the feelings of dread, and I hated myself for it. And ALL I ****ING GOT FROM ANYONE WAS SNAP OUT OF IT, WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU, YOU AREN'T THE MAN I MARRIED ANYMORE, LOOK WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO YOUR KIDS, HOW CAN YOU BE SO SELFISH TO ALWAYS DO WHAT YOU WANT AND NOT BE THERE FOR YOUR FAMILY, WHAT KIND OF A PIECE OF **** ARE YOU THAT YOU CAN'T JUST SNAP OUT OF IT, YOUR KIDS NEED YOU, WHY ARE YOU SUCH A BAD FATHER, WHY ARE YOU CHOOSING TO DISCONNECT FROM LIFE, CAN'T YOU SEE THE GIGANTIC MIRACLE GOD HAS WROUGHT GETTING YOU THROUGH CANCER, BE A MAN...BE A ****ING MAN!!!

WELL YOU KNOW WHAT, THAT NEVER HELPS, IT NEVER HELPS AT ALL. THAT IS THE ********. THE ******** IS THAT WE ARE SO POISONED AGAINST SHOWING ANY KIND OF WEAKNESS THAT WE GET SHAMED INTO THINKING IT IS ALL US, IT IS OUR CHOICES, IT IS OUR FAILINGS THAT MAKE US LIKE THIS. BY MY PARENTS, MY WIFE, THE CHURCH LEADERS I TURNED TO FOR HELP, EVEN MY BEST FRIEND SAT THERE AND SAID "HEY JUST SNAP OUT OF IT, BE A MAN!!"

BY GOD I DARE ANYONE WHO IS NOT A MAN TO GO THROUGH THIS FOR THE BETTER PART OF 2 DECADES WITHOUT KILLING THEMSELVES. IT TAKES MORE THAN A MAN TO FIGHT THROUGH IT EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN THERE AND YOU CANNOT KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE THEN SHUT THE **** UP...AND LISTEN!! JUST STOP TALKING AND LISTEN TO THE PERSON.

I finally had someone listen to me. We had moved around and finally made it back to Utah. I had attempted suicide twice in that time frame, believing WITH ALL MY SOUL THAT IT WAS DOING MY FAMILY...MY KIDS...A HUGE FAVOR. GET OUT OF THEIR LIVES, SET THEM FREE. We started going back to a doctor that I had always connected with. He listened to whatever it was I had gone to him about, then just put his hand on my leg and looked into my eyes and asked "but how are you?" I broke down then and there and felt like a total ***** for doing it. I still feel somewhat ashamed. I told him everything I had been feeling, and that I couldn't understand why I felt that way, and how it and what everyone was telling me made me feel about myself. We talked and he walked me through the first assessment I had taken, and told me I was suffering from clinical depression. After a few more visits with him and a couple other doctors, among them a neurologist and a psychiatrist, I was diagnosed with a form of post-traumatic stress syndrome. The same thing guys have coming home from war. It occurs in patients who had dealt with a serious physical trauma (cancer is a common trigger) in which the body more or less reconfigures the brain chemistry to help the mind cope with an uncopeable (is that a word?) situation, and sometimes the brain cannot bounce back, the chemicals stay out of whack even though the trigger is gone, and long-term severe depression is often the result.

After nearly 8 years of my family's life I finally started getting help. Most of my children's childhood they had to deal with a dad like me, and I will never get those years back. Oh I wasn't abusive, but depression makes itself known. I was hyper-critical, didn't want to spend time with my kids, I was quick to anger, and slow to apologize, I was suffering and in some ways took it out on my family. That is where the "how can you do this to your family" bit comes in I guess.

Now I have been in treatment for about 6 years, and I have come to terms, mostly, with the fact that I will likely never get on top of this. To date I have tried 14 different medications all with varying effects, none that really every worked. The most I can hope for, I fear, is to feel kind of ok sometimes. But that is better than the alternative. Not long after I quit Jazzfanz a while back I went through an experience trying to help someone very very dear to me get through her own bout with depression, and I was on the phone with her trying to talk her down when she decided to end her life. I was already in a low point and it put me into a tailspin and I made another attempt on my own life.

I'm doing ok now. I go through periods of severe relapse, following by adjusting meds or trying new ones, and then I get back to ok. But I can live with ok.

I guess I needed to share, I don't know why I put all this out there, but there it is.

If you know anyone you have ever told to just "snap out of it" please try to help them get help.
 
I never asked to feel this way. I spent OVER TEN ****ING YEARS hearing from EVERYONE how I just needed to snap out of it. I couldn't understand why I constantly felt like **** after my cancer treatment was over. I thought life should continue just as before, right? I had been the life of the party, always the one to welcome people to the group. I loved to be around people. My wife was drawn to that, it is what pulled us together in the first place really. Now I was more often than not sullen, I didn't want to be around anyone, I wanted to sit by myself in a corner or not go. I couldn't shake the feelings of dread, and I hated myself for it. And ALL I ****ING GOT FROM ANYONE WAS SNAP OUT OF IT, WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU, YOU AREN'T THE MAN I MARRIED ANYMORE, LOOK WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO YOUR KIDS, HOW CAN YOU BE SO SELFISH TO ALWAYS DO WHAT YOU WANT AND NOT BE THERE FOR YOUR FAMILY, WHAT KIND OF A PIECE OF **** ARE YOU THAT YOU CAN'T JUST SNAP OUT OF IT, YOUR KIDS NEED YOU, WHY ARE YOU SUCH A BAD FATHER, WHY ARE YOU CHOOSING TO DISCONNECT FROM LIFE, CAN'T YOU SEE THE GIGANTIC MIRACLE GOD HAS WROUGHT GETTING YOU THROUGH CANCER, BE A MAN...BE A ****ING MAN!!!

WELL YOU KNOW WHAT, THAT NEVER HELPS, IT NEVER HELPS AT ALL. THAT IS THE ********. THE ******** IS THAT WE ARE SO POISONED AGAINST SHOWING ANY KIND OF WEAKNESS THAT WE GET SHAMED INTO THINKING IT IS ALL US, IT IS OUR CHOICES, IT IS OUR FAILINGS THAT MAKE US LIKE THIS. BY MY PARENTS, MY WIFE, THE CHURCH LEADERS I TURNED TO FOR HELP, EVEN MY BEST FRIEND SAT THERE AND SAID "HEY JUST SNAP OUT OF IT, BE A MAN!!"

BY GOD I DARE ANYONE WHO IS NOT A MAN TO GO THROUGH THIS FOR THE BETTER PART OF 2 DECADES WITHOUT KILLING THEMSELVES. IT TAKES MORE THAN A MAN TO FIGHT THROUGH IT EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN THERE AND YOU CANNOT KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE THEN SHUT THE **** UP...AND LISTEN!! JUST STOP TALKING AND LISTEN TO THE PERSON.

I finally had someone listen to me. We had moved around and finally made it back to Utah. I had attempted suicide twice in that time frame, believing WITH ALL MY SOUL THAT IT WAS DOING MY FAMILY...MY KIDS...A HUGE FAVOR. GET OUT OF THEIR LIVES, SET THEM FREE. We started going back to a doctor that I had always connected with. He listened to whatever it was I had gone to him about, then just put his hand on my leg and looked into my eyes and asked "but how are you?" I broke down then and there and felt like a total ***** for doing it. I still feel somewhat ashamed. I told him everything I had been feeling, and that I couldn't understand why I felt that way, and how it and what everyone was telling me made me feel about myself. We talked and he walked me through the first assessment I had taken, and told me I was suffering from clinical depression. After a few more visits with him and a couple other doctors, among them a neurologist and a psychiatrist, I was diagnosed with a form of post-traumatic stress syndrome. The same thing guys have coming home from war. It occurs in patients who had dealt with a serious physical trauma (cancer is a common trigger) in which the body more or less reconfigures the brain chemistry to help the mind cope with an uncopeable (is that a word?) situation, and sometimes the brain cannot bounce back, the chemicals stay out of whack even though the trigger is gone, and long-term severe depression is often the result.

After nearly 8 years of my family's life I finally started getting help. Most of my children's childhood they had to deal with a dad like me, and I will never get those years back. Oh I wasn't abusive, but depression makes itself known. I was hyper-critical, didn't want to spend time with my kids, I was quick to anger, and slow to apologize, I was suffering and in some ways took it out on my family. That is where the "how can you do this to your family" bit comes in I guess.

Now I have been in treatment for about 6 years, and I have come to terms, mostly, with the fact that I will likely never get on top of this. To date I have tried 14 different medications all with varying effects, none that really every worked. The most I can hope for, I fear, is to feel kind of ok sometimes. But that is better than the alternative. Not long after I quit Jazzfanz a while back I went through an experience trying to help someone very very dear to me get through her own bout with depression, and I was on the phone with her trying to talk her down when she decided to end her life. I was already in a low point and it put me into a tailspin and I made another attempt on my own life.

I'm doing ok now. I go through periods of severe relapse, following by adjusting meds or trying new ones, and then I get back to ok. But I can live with ok.

I guess I needed to share, I don't know why I put all this out there, but there it is.

If you know anyone you have ever told to just "snap out of it" please try to help them get help.

Big time MAN of a post right there. Thanks for sharing, log. I don't know you personally, but I'd be damn proud to.
 
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