Stephen A Smith & Jalen Rose - Mitchell is ROY

[LifeOnaPlate]

Clinton Yates on the win streak: "I'll buy this as sort of a local thing for Jazz fans [indiscernible], but are we really supposed to believe that the Jazz are gonna somehow make noise, if you will, in the western conference? I'm not there."

That's cool, Clinton. Yu don't need to be here for it to happen.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And the Jazz are a lot worse with Rudy out. Neither Simmons or Mitchell is the best player on their team.

Yes, but specifically Donovan doesn't depend on Rudy to be great offensively and Ben appears to need Embiid on the floor to be effective.

 

[oneye]

It bothers me how much of the media talk about how Spida is our best player. It's almost like Gobert doesn't exist. Like he deserves ROY because he's carrying a bunch of scrubs to the playoffs. Smd.

You mean like in this article where it says “Mitchell is a one man show”...... I honestly love the attention Donovan is getting, but I wonder how much or for how long Rudy will enjoy being ignored. As I said in another post Rudy should be defensive player of the year if the Jazz climb up the standings and Quin should be considered for coach of the year. Rudy coming back changed everything, and the dude deserves just as much credit for sure. Jazz have two stars, not one.

https://www.libertyballers.com/platform/amp/2018/2/14/17012600/ben-simmons-roy-bid-is-losing-steam

 

[sahlensguy]

Clinton Yates on the win streak: "I'll buy this as sort of a local thing for Jazz fans [indiscernible], but are we really supposed to believe that the Jazz are gonna somehow make noise, if you will, in the western conference? I'm not there."

That's cool, Clinton. Yu don't need to be here for it to happen.

Yeah I took exception to that comment as well. If Rubio continues his rise and our D plays like a top 3 D that they are, the Jazz are a tough out. For anybody. Got to get in first though.

 

[Soothsayer]

I just read a definition and “defensive RPM” seems like a horse **** metric.

Essentially, it adjusts nominal “plus minus” for the quality of defenders the player is on the court with. Rationale being if Draymond Green, Rudy Gobert, and James Harden are on the court at the same time, Harden is going to look like a lock down defender, when the credit really goes to Green and Gobert. But ultimately, I think the adjusted “real” metric ends up hurting the guys who play with elite defenders. It also ignores how two defenders can complement each other (treats it as a zero sum game).

We can tell from our own two eyes, Donovan has long arms that make it difficult for opposing offense, he gets big steals at big times, and can block shots. Most importantly, he is always hustling on defense. The one thing I would like to see him improve on is early foul trouble. Sometimes he can stack up 3 in a row in the first quarter.

 

[The Midnight]

I dunno about you guys, but my theory is if you've been around an NBA team for a year, you're no longer a rookie. You should be competing strictly against your class.


On that basis Mitchell should run away with this year's ROY race.


But that's just me.

 

[infection]

I'm a #1 DM Homer. On the bandwagon since summer league, when I called him a cross between Dame (offense) and Bradley (pre-regression defense) He is going to be great.

I'm also a Sixers season ticket holder. They are both amazing and only going to get better. For the season, it is a tossup. For the career, 32/32 GMs would draft Simmons over DM, knowing what they know today. DM may become a perennial all-star. Simmons may become an all-time great.

For this year, I'm pulling for DM to win ROY with passion. I don't think the case has been made.

Is season ticket some kind of league pass thing or you literally are a Sixers season ticket holder who’s really a Jazz fan?

 

[utahjazzz]

Simmons just posted another triple doubles against the Heat.
18pts, 12 rbs, 10ass, 4 steals. He is a beast.
He won the game without Embiid too.

 

[Hotdog]

For me its Donavan. Id even rather build around Donavan. Not being able to shoot the ball is kind of a big deal in todays game right?

I like Simmons, but stats can be overrated. He is tall so Im not all that impressed by his rebounding numbers. You should average more rebounds that Donavan. Same with FG%. Simmons is bigger and plays closer to the hoop. Id rather have Donavan at the end of a game shooting the ball.

Skills wise the only thing Simmons has on Donavan is passing, and its not really that big of a gap. Donavan could put up more assists if he was asked to and the situation was a little different.

 

[Archie Moses]

For me its Donavan. Id even rather build around Donavan. Not being able to shoot the ball is kind of a big deal in todays game right?

I like Simmons, but stats can be overrated. He is tall so Im not all that impressed by his rebounding numbers. You should average more rebounds that Donavan. Same with FG%. Simmons is bigger and plays closer to the hoop. Id rather have Donavan at the end of a game shooting the ball.

Skills wise the only thing Simmons has on Donavan is passing, and its not really that big of a gap. Donavan could put up more assists if he was asked to and the situation was a little different.

The moment you said Simmons can be overrated proves you're talking somewhere out of your ether between your ears. Simmons could end up being one of the best we've ever seen and is spewing with talent. Oh, he just put up his sixth triple double of the year so far.

 

[jazzfan1971]

Ya ever know you are wrong because all the folks that agree with you are boneheads?

 

[Ron Mexico]

Simmons just posted another triple doubles against the Heat.
18pts, 12 rbs, 10ass, 4 steals. He is a beast.
He won the game without Embiid too.

What did he do in the last 2 minutes to help win the game? The last 2 minutes all he did is turn the ball over twice. His team is down 94-100 and he does very little to win the game but a lot of teammates did a lot.

 

[akirac73]

If Donovan wins the dunk contest, he will lock up the ROY award. That is my gut feeling.

 

[Archie Moses]

What did he do in the last 2 minutes to help win the game? The last 2 minutes all he did is turn the ball over twice. His team is down 94-100 and he does very little to win the game but a lot of teammates did a lot.

What did he do the previous 46 minutes in the game to keep the game with in reach?

 

[Ron Mexico]

What did he do the previous 46 minutes in the game to keep the game with in reach?

Some decent stuff. But again, he shrinks in the 4th. He gets most of his stats in the 1st quarter.

If it was just one game, then I understand. But he consistently is a non factor at the end of games.

Mitchell gets most his stats in the 4th when his team needs him.


Its kind of like how the season has gone, Simmons best BBall was the first month or so. Mitchells best ball is the whatever the current month is this season.

 

[Archie Moses]

Some decent stuff. But again, he shrinks in the 4th. He gets most of his stats in the 1st quarter.

If it was just one game, then I understand. But he consistently is a non factor at the end of games.

Mitchell gets most his stats in the 4th when his team needs him.


Its kind of like how the season has gone, Simmons best BBall was the first month or so. Mitchells best ball is the whatever the current month is this season.

With seven minutes left in the game or less, Simmons put up 6 points 2 defensive rebounds and 1 crucial offensive rebound. The fourth quarter was arguably his best...

http://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400975601

 

[Ron Mexico]

Too much is given for Simmons rebounds which leads to these triple doubles people think are so impressive and cool. Just like Westbrook last year they are mostly artificial.

Simmons gets less than 1 offensive rebounds and less than 1 defensive rebound a game that is contested. 78% of his rebounds have 0 defenders around him.

In the last 20 games Mitchell is getting 1.2 contested rebounds a game to Simmons 1.3. If you adjust that for Pace Mitchell is out rebounding Simmons in contested situations as of late.

 

[Ron Mexico]

With seven minutes left in the game or less, Simmons put up 6 points 2 defensive rebounds and one crucial offensive rebound. The fourth quarter was arguably his best...

http://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=400975601

No, his 1st quarter is his best. Im not sure where you are getting that 6 points in the final 7 minutes stat from but these are his splits on NBA.com. He gets the most points, rebounds and assists in the 1st quarter. 4.6 points (also his best shooting quarter), 2.3 assists, and 2.1 rebounds.


The opposite is true of Mitchell. His best quarter is the 4th. He gets 6.6 points (on his best shooting of the game 47.1%), 1.0 rebound and 0.8 assists.

Its not really arguable which quarter is each of their best.

http://stats.nba.com/player/1627732/traditional/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season&Split=ingame

http://stats.nba.com/player/1628378/traditional/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season&Split=ingame

Edit:
Oh, I see you are talking about the one game. Sure he started off helping and then the game got tight and he disappeared. Watch the final few minutes. He had nothing to do with his team having a huge comeback to steal that game away. I was talking about the final 2 minutes and then talked about his season stats and how their seasons are going.

But still his 4th in this game was not his best and he tried to ruin the comeback by turning the ball over more than once.

 

[Archie Moses]

Ok, Simmons is awful and so overrated. He blew tonight in the fourth. Only Mitchell deserves praise.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Ok, Simmons is awful and so overrated. He blew tonight in the fourth. Only Mitchell deserves praise.

Nice strawman argument.

I dont think he is awful. He just isnt as good as Mitchell right now and is less deserving of the ROY. But he deserves 2nd place.

I dont think he will be a really good player until he learns to shoot though.

He is like a typical rookie that is good and gets lots of minutes. Very few rookies help you win, especially in the 4th. Simmons has a very positive net rating in the 1st quarter +19.9. The rest of the quarters are positive until the 4th when he is -5.2.