What does LeBron need to do to surpass Jordan?

[BTP]

The NBA three point line was moved up 3 feet for the 2006-07 season to 19 feet 9 nine inches at the top of the key and 19 feet two inches on the sideline. The NBA three point was moved back three feet for the 2007-08 season to its original length. The NBA introduced the three point line in the 1979-80 season at a length of 23'9" from the top of the key to a length of 22 feet in the corners.

Bird and Magic came into the league in 1982.....so they played their entire careers when the line was still 3 feet further back than the 2007 season!

Stop posting wrong quotes w/o reference....

During the 1994–95, 1995–96 and 1996-97 seasons, the NBA attempted to address decreased scoring by shortening the distance of the line from 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners) to a uniform 22 feet (6.7 m) around the basket. In 1995–96, Dennis Scott set a then-record for most three-pointers made in a season (267) and George McCloud set the record for most three-point attempts (678). From the 1997–98 season, the NBA reverted the line to its original distance of 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners)

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-point_field_goal

so it's not like in 97/98 there was something about 3 point shooting. And saying that refs cost the Jazz that championship is a ridirkulous statement w/o having a 48 minute second to second breakdown with regard to if the refs had a chance to call it right. But the way you sound I'm very certain that discussing with you on an eye to eye level about this topic is not possible. So I'll just add that and ignore further comments if they're intellectual fallout like the last things you said.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Carolina, you're a moran. NBA three point line has been 23'9" other than those three years mentioned above when the NBA moved it in to accommodate the poor shooters of the 90s. Bird and LeBron have only played with the line at 23'9". But nice attempt at finding a way to justify your ridiculous bias against modern day players. Just the fact that you weren't aware of the 23'9" distance prior to 2007 shows how little you really know about or pay attention to the game.

 

[carolinajazz]

...must have clicked on a bogus link?

 

[Fabtrey]

.....good point and nice observation! If we could have gotten ANY production whatsoever offensively from Ostertag, the Jazz would have definitely won that series! Oh, did I mention the Jazz also got HOSED big time by Dick Bevetta on those 2 three point shots, the one they counted by the Bulls that shouldn't have been....and the one they didn't count by the Jazz that should have been?

let's see how bron looks when he is 35. while taking nearly 2 year off from basketball.

2nd peat MJ was all mental & skill, but no major athleticism advantage. i wonder what bron would be like if he loses his athleticism.

 

[BTP]

let's see how bron looks when he is 35. while taking nearly 2 year off from basketball.

2nd peat MJ was all mental & skill, but no major athleticism advantage. i wonder what bron would be like if he loses his athleticism.

post and passing, no more slashing. more spot up as he prepares his long range ball to extend his career.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

let's see how bron looks when he is 35. while taking nearly 2 year off from basketball.

2nd peat MJ was all mental & skill, but no major athleticism advantage. i wonder what bron would be like if he loses his athleticism.

Probably a 6'8" 250 lb forward who can shoot the long ball or score in the post, who rebounds, passes, defends, makes good decisions and makes his teammates better. Athleticism is a major part of his game (similar to what it was for MJ in the beginning), but his athleticism doesn't define him anymore. You take LeBron's athleticism away, you still have one of the most skilled players ever, a player with crazy work ethic, a guy who is a student of the game and has a ridiculously high Bball IQ. In essence, you take his athleticism away, you have the NBA version of Peyton Manning.

 

[fishonjazz]

Probably a 6'8" 250 lb forward who can shoot the long ball or score in the post, who rebounds, passes, defends, makes good decisions and makes his teammates better. Athleticism is a major part of his game (similar to what it was for MJ in the beginning), but his athleticism doesn't define him anymore. You take LeBron's athleticism away, you still have one of the most skilled players ever, a player with crazy work ethic, a guy who is a student of the game and has a ridiculously high Bball IQ. In essence, you take his athleticism away, you have the NBA version of Peyton Manning.

Great post

 

[LogGrad98]

LBJ will never be better than Jordan. He had a chance to join that rarified air but bailed on the organization to create a super team. LBJ didn't make players around him better, he left those players to play alongside proven allstars so he could focus on the individual game. Jordan took a revolving door of 3Rd string players, with only one other all star caliber player with him, and turned them into some of the greatest teams that ever played the game. Would we even be having this conversation if LBJ had never played with wade? I'm not even sure you could argue that James is better than Kobe or Dr J or magic Johnson or bird.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

 

[8]

LBJ will never be better than Jordan. He had a chance to join that rarified air but bailed on the organization to create a super team. LBJ didn't make players around him better, he left those players to play alongside proven allstars so he could focus on the individual game. Jordan took a revolving door of 3Rd string players, with only one other all star caliber player with him, and turned them into some of the greatest teams that ever played the game. Would we even be having this conversation if LBJ had never played with wade? I'm not even sure you could argue that James is better than Kobe or Dr J or magic Johnson or bird.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

Would we be having the conversation if Jordan had never played with Pippen? Saying LBJ doesn't make players around him better is the craziest thing someone can say. That's the best part of his game.

His right-hand man in Cleveland was Mo Williams. Mo ****ing Williams. He's also the sole reason Daniel Gibson lasted as long as he did in the NBA. Why wouldn't he go to a team that gives him the best chance at winning a title?

 

[fishonjazz]

LBJ will never be better than Jordan. He had a chance to join that rarified air but bailed on the organization to create a super team. LBJ didn't make players around him better, he left those players to play alongside proven allstars so he could focus on the individual game. Jordan took a revolving door of 3Rd string players, with only one other all star caliber player with him, and turned them into some of the greatest teams that ever played the game. Would we even be having this conversation if LBJ had never played with wade? I'm not even sure you could argue that James is better than Kobe or Dr J or magic Johnson or bird.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

Um he took cleveland to the finals twice with all dat garbage.

And at a much younger age than jordan ever sniffed a finals

 

[spycam1]

LBJ will never be better than Jordan. He had a chance to join that rarified air but bailed on the organization to create a super team. LBJ didn't make players around him better, he left those players to play alongside proven allstars so he could focus on the individual game. Jordan took a revolving door of 3Rd string players, with only one other all star caliber player with him, and turned them into some of the greatest teams that ever played the game. Would we even be having this conversation if LBJ had never played with wade? I'm not even sure you could argue that James is better than Kobe or Dr J or magic Johnson or bird.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've read on this site. Ever.

I hate to say that, cause I actually like you, Log.

 

[pickledXgrandma]

LBJ will never be better than Jordan. He had a chance to join that rarified air but bailed on the organization to create a super team. LBJ didn't make players around him better, he left those players to play alongside proven allstars so he could focus on the individual game. Jordan took a revolving door of 3Rd string players, with only one other all star caliber player with him, and turned them into some of the greatest teams that ever played the game. Would we even be having this conversation if LBJ had never played with wade? I'm not even sure you could argue that James is better than Kobe or Dr J or magic Johnson or bird.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

Wow....just wow.

All I can say is "wow''.



Wow.

 

[BTP]

Wow....just wow.

All I can say is "wow''.



Wow.

That's what Kirilenko said...

 

[The Fresh Prince]

So are chances that LeBron converts to being a power forward in his advanced stages of his career highly likely?

LeBron to Jordan is apples to oranges.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

So are chances that LeBron converts to being a power forward in his advanced stages of his career highly likely?

He already plays a lot of 4, so yes, I'd say that's likely. However, more of a stretch/point power forward would be more likely. You'll still want the ball in his hands as often as possible because he's such a great passer and playmaker. But yeah, I think the post and the long ball will replace some of the slashing and transition plays.

LeBron to Jordan is apples to oranges.

Amen. One guy is a 6'8" 250, the other 6'6" 195. They are both great players. There is no need to put down one in order to build up the other.

 

[Fabtrey]

Would we be having the conversation if Jordan had never played with Pippen? Saying LBJ doesn't make players around him better is the craziest thing someone can say. That's the best part of his game.

His right-hand man in Cleveland was Mo Williams. Mo ****ing Williams. He's also the sole reason Daniel Gibson lasted as long as he did in the NBA. Why wouldn't he go to a team that gives him the best chance at winning a title?

and you are discrediting big Z. he was actually decent - top 5 center for at least 4 years.

anyway we all know jordan pretty much made pippen. pippen's D became better every year because he was guarding MJ in practice. pippen admitted that many times. when your leader slaps your face(kerr), threaten to kill you(grant) on a daily basis, you get better both mentally & physically. MJ got into your head. MJ controlled your life. pippen right now is taking a jab at MJ here and there - is still MJ's little puppet. MJ didn't have any friends. MJ was the dictator. that quality of him was sickening, but it was needed to make the team greater. you can really say MJ made others better by just being MJ - an obsessed competitor who put fear into teammates. horace grant really was afraid of MJ. bill wennington too. wennington admitted that as well. do you guys think phil jackson was a coach? lol. nobody feared the zen master. zen master was the soothing presence. MJ was what everyone feared and listened to. zen master was yang to MJ's yin just to keep the balance. he was more of a ref in most of those championship years. all he did was make MJ to share the ball and made him understand that without team ball he won't win a damn thing. MJ listened. that's all. i'm not discrediting Phil, but that's how it was. he managed MJ's gigantic ego. that alone is a greatest thing a coach ever did in this league.

bron is more like Magic. he is a people pleaser. but he still gets way too much credit lately. bosh is 24/10 guy as a lead dog. wade won it all by himself, and still has plenty left in him. without bron, wade is still a 25pt guy. if that's not an all star team, i don't know what is.

 

[fishonjazz]

and you are discrediting big Z. he was actually decent - top 5 center for at least 4 years.

anyway we all know jordan pretty much made pippen. pippen's D became better every year because he was guarding MJ in practice. pippen admitted that many times. when your leader slaps your face(kerr), threaten to kill you(grant) on a daily basis, you get better both mentally & physically. MJ got into your head. MJ controlled your life. pippen right now is taking a jab at MJ here and there - is still MJ's little puppet. MJ didn't have any friends. MJ was the dictator. that quality of him was sickening, but it was needed to make the team greater. you can really say MJ made others better by just being MJ - an obsessed competitor who put fear into teammates. horace grant really was afraid of MJ. bill wennington too. wennington admitted that as well. do you guys think phil jackson was a coach? lol. nobody feared the zen master. zen master was the soothing presence. MJ was what everyone feared and listened to. zen master was yang to MJ's yin just to keep the balance. he was more of a ref in most of those championship years. all he did was make MJ to share the ball and made him understand that without team ball he won't win a damn thing. MJ listened. that's all. i'm not discrediting Phil, but that's how it was. he managed MJ's gigantic ego. that alone is a greatest thing a coach ever did in this league.

bron is more like Magic. he is a people pleaser. but he still gets way too much credit lately. bosh is 24/10 guy as a lead dog. wade won it all by himself, and still has plenty left in him. without bron, wade is still a 25pt guy. if that's not an all star team, i don't know what is.

Give me some stats on big z.
I remember him being mediocre. About as good as ostertag.

Of course he may have looked decent playing next to lebron cause lebron is amazing at making average to crappy players look good. (Boobie gibson and mo williams come to mind)

 

[fishonjazz]

I would say that pippen, kukoc, horace grant, dennis rodman, and steve kerr are all better than anyone on the cleveland team that lebron took to 2 finals as an extremely young player.

As for the miami team.... wade is past his prime and injured contantly so I think pippen (a hall of famer) is better than the current d wade.

Bosh is decent, a lower caliber all star player even, but rodman (another hall of famer) is better than bosh.

Horace grant was better than haslem or birdman.

Ray allen is probably a little better than steve kerr.

Kukoc is better than battier

Phil jackson is considered by many to be the greatest coach of all time so he is greater than spoelstra.



But ya jordan had no supporting cast (other than 3 other hall of famers) and lebron has an all star team

 

[BTP]

Give me some stats on big z.
I remember him being mediocre. About as good as ostertag.

Of course he may have looked decent playing next to lebron cause lebron is amazing at making average to crappy players look good. (Boobie gibson and mo williams come to mind)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/ilgauzy01.html
Big Z was a beast long before LBJ arrived.

 

[8]

and you are discrediting big Z. he was actually decent - top 5 center for at least 4 years.

anyway we all know jordan pretty much made pippen. pippen's D became better every year because he was guarding MJ in practice. pippen admitted that many times. when your leader slaps your face(kerr), threaten to kill you(grant) on a daily basis, you get better both mentally & physically. MJ got into your head. MJ controlled your life. pippen right now is taking a jab at MJ here and there - is still MJ's little puppet. MJ didn't have any friends. MJ was the dictator. that quality of him was sickening, but it was needed to make the team greater. you can really say MJ made others better by just being MJ - an obsessed competitor who put fear into teammates. horace grant really was afraid of MJ. bill wennington too. wennington admitted that as well. do you guys think phil jackson was a coach? lol. nobody feared the zen master. zen master was the soothing presence. MJ was what everyone feared and listened to. zen master was yang to MJ's yin just to keep the balance. he was more of a ref in most of those championship years. all he did was make MJ to share the ball and made him understand that without team ball he won't win a damn thing. MJ listened. that's all. i'm not discrediting Phil, but that's how it was. he managed MJ's gigantic ego. that alone is a greatest thing a coach ever did in this league.

bron is more like Magic. he is a people pleaser. but he still gets way too much credit lately. bosh is 24/10 guy as a lead dog. wade won it all by himself, and still has plenty left in him. without bron, wade is still a 25pt guy. if that's not an all star team, i don't know what is.

Can't please people and be a leader? Gotta be a ruthless dictator to be a leader?

Interesting

Only thing I remember Big Z doing while he played w/ Lebron was hit an open midrange shot off of a pick and pop or Lebron drive and kick. He was good at that and nothing else.

Lebron will never be as good at scoring as Jordan imo, but I think most people are saying that you are placing too much importance on this aspect and not enough on others (ball-handling, passing, shot selection, efficiency, general athleticism)

It can definitely go either way (I take Jordan fwiw), but to say it's not even a debate, or Lebron isn't close, or will never be close, is ridiculous. He's really insane. Perhaps you should watch more Lebron