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I've never been so scared in my life

♪alt13 said:
Srsly imagine your workplace. Now imagine that everyone there is going through puberty, you have weekly tests of you're knowledge, you have to take your work home, you can't quit, you don't get paid, and you produce nothing. That's Jr high.
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Why do we need a metaphor for something we all went through?

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♪alt13 said:
I was not blaming our school system for school shootings. I was saying that I think our system does a lot of psychological harm. That it isn't just one crazy kid here or there. That the problem is greater than just school shootings. I agree with your second paragraph and would simply point out that our schooling system is part(perhaps the most important) of the society you describe in the second paragraph. You make the argument yourself. We have replaced that community with a school system that will be replaced by a workplace when you age. As far as being isolated these kids aren't alone they're lonely. They are surrounded by people that are busy establishing their own position in the pecking order and stepping on others is often how you do that. Jr. high is a hyper intense version of our society that is filled with the people that are least equipped to deal with it.
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Ya, I agree with all of this. I just wanted to point out that it is a larger societal problem, and not just school related. I believe you're right that the cultural factors that lead to this problem are most apparent in schools, for the reasons you listed.

You're spot on about people being lonely despite being surrounded by people. That is exactly the loss of community that I was referring to.

To make things worse, I don't think there are any comprehensive solutions in the current system. You can make things better thru gun control and what have you. But the source of the problem is technology; the well from which all "progress" gushes thru. Community is just the price we pay for the technological empowerment of the individual.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Seems like you are taking an issue that is in the extreme minority and acting as if it is an issue that effects the vast majority of children. How many instances of a kid shooting up their own school can you list?
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How many suicides, overdoses, dropouts, etc.

Seems like you're ignoring the way the vast majority of kids lash out.
 
Siro said:
Ya, I agree with all of this. I just wanted to point out that it is a larger societal problem, and not just school related. I believe you're right that the cultural factors that lead to this problem are most apparent in schools, for the reasons you listed.

You're spot on about people being lonely despite being surrounded by people. That is exactly the loss of community that I was referring to.

To make things worse, I don't think there are any comprehensive solutions in the current system. You can make things better thru gun control and what have you. But the source of the problem is technology; the well from which all "progress" gushes thru. Community is just the price we pay for the technological empowerment of the individual.
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I disagree with the last paragraph. I was one of those kids. I doubt I would have survived school. One of the things that helped me was getting a day job and working with adults. Suddenly I had role models who were interested in cooperation and who appreciated what I produced. Ironically I went from not knowing what the inside of my school library looked like to spending time in book stores. While I had friends in school I found that after I left I liked them much more. Instead of having a girlfriend that was mostly for show(hated her)I started having relationships with people I wanted to actually spend time with. There wasn't a non-brick and mortar option available to me to continue my education. You took your GED and that was that.

I think that technology can provide options that weren't there before. I think it can provide opportunities to reestablish communities and provide new ones. Further I think that we have underutilized the opportunities for individualization in our education system that technology can provide. Our current system doesn't help kids to become individuals. It strips them of that in much the same way that it strips them of a sense of community. Most kids aren't served well by our current system and they leave school ill prepared for both college and the workplace. I think that a change in our education system could not only increase the psychological health of our kids but also lead to better educational outcomes.
 
♪alt13 said:
Srsly imagine your workplace. Now imagine that everyone there is going through puberty, you have weekly tests of your knowledge, you have to take your work home, you can't quit, you don't get paid, and you produce nothing. That's Jr high.
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Damm. I would probably go postal too in that scenario.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
You don't think I noticed that you just moved the goalposts?
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What are you talking about? You need to reread my posts with less of an agenda. I'm not making any argument against gun control here. Nothing I have said in this thread is an argument against gun control. You could agree or disagree with me and still be for or against gun control.
 
♪alt13 said:
What are you talking about? You need to reread my posts with less of an agenda. I'm not making any argument against gun control here. Nothing I have said in this thread is an argument against gun control. You could agree or disagree with me and still be for or against gun control.
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I'm not sure why you think I see this as a gun control issue. I disagree with your assessment that school shootings are some sort of systemic issue that arises from taking a hunter/gatherer culture and putting them into schools. To me that sounds like a ridiculous explanation for very bad (but also very isolated) behavior like shooting up a school.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I'm not sure why you think I see this as a gun control issue. I disagree with your assessment that school shootings are some sort of systemic issue that arises from taking a hunter/gatherer culture and putting them into schools. To me that sounds like a ridiculous explanation for very bad (but also very isolated) behavior like shooting up a school.
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I think he was saying that kids lashing out (in many ways, not just bringing guns to school) is a systemic issue.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I'm not sure why you think I see this as a gun control issue. I disagree with your assessment that school shootings are some sort of systemic issue that arises from taking a hunter/gatherer culture and putting them into schools. To me that sounds like a ridiculous explanation for very bad (but also very isolated) behavior like shooting up a school.
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Forget about the shooters for a second

Let's talk about destructive behaviors as a whole. When we do it seems that they are commonplace. Now think of all the kids that feel the same way but are able to hold it together even if just barely. Why do so many kids feel so isolated, worthless, imprisoned, and hopeless? Is that how they are supposed to feel? You tell me, What's going on?
 
PG_AB said:
Some kinda coincidence this happens days after OP is advocating for kids using guns.. amiright or amiright???
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NAOS said:
I know this is a sensitive time, and I wouldn't even ask if you weren't discussing this with others, but shouldn't you be waiting to hear more facts on this case (after the investigation is further along) before deciding how this either reinforces or changes what you already believed?
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After we got home and spent some time together, my daughter was doing okay (relatively) and I had something I really needed to take care of at work. I asked her if she was okay and she told me to go back to work (she knows how busy I've been the last couple weeks). Work had always been very therapeutic for me. It allows me to clear my head and think through things. So, I've had a chance to think through these comments and my feelings. The conclusion I came to is the same it's been. I firmly believe that if guns (with the necessary training, etc.) were more available/accessible to faculty and such at schools, these ******** scenarios wouldn't play out to the extent they do. Imagine how many fewer lives could have been lost at Columbine or Sandy Hook if a handful of teachers/staff were carrying weapons? I'm pretty sure we can all agree that if someone with bad intentions wants a gun, they will find it. If there are more "good guys" with the ability/tools to protect us, it will help. I go back to the responsibility of the gun owner.
 
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