Coronavirus

[One Brow]

The 10% efficacy of a mask, if the protection is even that high with a cloth mask on a child against the Delta variant which new research is casting doubt on, is not the equivalent of a 95%+ efficacy vaccine.

1) No one is claiming that it is.
2) There is a very large degree of overlap between the anti-maskers and the anti-vaxxers.
3) Removing mask requirements does not mean these people will get vaccinated.

Cloth masks are essentially useless in protecting a kid against the Delta variant but they provide adults an excuse to not get their kids vaccinated because they wrongly believe in cloth masks.

Your take on this is founded in a largely fantastical understanding of human nature.

 

[One Brow]

Misinformation...

It's true that 70% is a ridiculous number. It's also true that overdoses on ivermectin are increasing at a ridiculous rate. An honest person would note both sides of that.

 

[One Brow]

The reality is that EVERYONE is going to get COVID at some point.

That may be the stupidest take I have ever seen from you. For any communicable disease that has ever existed, including coronavirus diseases, some percentage of the population has been immune even without vaccines, and many more will be with the vaccines.

Had you said, "everyone is going to be exposed to the covid19 virus", that would be much closer to the truth. Even "almost everyone will test positive for covid19 at some point" doesn't seem entirely out of line. However, the vast majority of people who keep to the vaccination schedule will not get covid19.

The problem with mask mandates is that people believe that even if they haven't taken the vaccine at least they are doing something. It may not be the vaccine but it is something.

Wearing a mask is doing something. It's not enough, but it is something.

 

[JazzyFresh]

It's true that 70% is a ridiculous number. It's also true that overdoses on ivermectin are increasing at a ridiculous rate. An honest person would note both sides of that.

Why am I responsible for fixing Thriller and Fishs gullible lie that the dumbest of dumb knew was propaganda? Why is that my fault?

I view ivermectin the same as the vaccine. Personal choice. If people OD on it, that's on them. I don't feel much remorse.

 

[One Brow]

Why am I responsible for fixing Thriller and Fishs gullible lie that the dumbest of dumb knew was propaganda? Why is that my fault?

You weren't but you chose to "fix" it anyhow by engaging in opposite misinformation.

I view ivermectin the same as the vaccine. Personal choice. If people OD on it, that's on them. I don't feel much remorse.

Noted.

 

[Ron Mexico]

There is no prevention. Everyone is going to get it. The messaging has to switch to one of how best to prepare your body to recover from your inevitable infection.

That's definitely not true, plenty of people won't get it. Plus, this take is also pretty USA centric. Plenty of other countries have it under control. If every country closed borders and travel within, contract traced/quarantined positive cases, and vaccinated it would go away quickly.

But I agree with the sentiment. The vast majority of people will catch it, and possibly multiple times. It seems unlikely to go away or get under control worldwide in the foreseeable future.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

This message sucks to high heaven!! Might be true, though.

 

[JazzyFresh]

I'm reading on how Australia is rounding people up and putting them in quarantine camps. Hotels and such where they can't even open their doors. Personally are understandably losing their mind. This is
absolutely terrifying.

 

[gandalfe]

I'm reading on how Australia is rounding people up and putting them in quarantine camps. Hotels and such where they can't even open their doors. Personally are understandably losing their mind. This is
absolutely terrifying.

Either you're lying, they were lying, or you didn't understand what you were reading.

Here's an actual article about it. It's only for those returning from overseas who need to quarantine, not for grabbing random people off the street.

Took me about 12 seconds to find, btw.

Construction of Mickleham quarantine camp starts

Melbourne’s Centre for National Resilience – the new quarantine facility in Mickleham – is to open by the end of the year.

www.theage.com.au

 

[JazzyFresh]

Either you're lying, they were lying, or you didn't understand what you were reading.

Here's an actual article about it. It's only for those returning from overseas who need to quarantine, not for grabbing random people off the street.

Took me about 12 seconds to find, btw.

Construction of Mickleham quarantine camp starts

Melbourne’s Centre for National Resilience – the new quarantine facility in Mickleham – is to open by the end of the year.

www.theage.com.au

You're right, rounding people up was a bit extreme but It's obvious he's there by choice and has every resource behind him. People are being forced into these quarantine hotels without wanting to and even outside of these hotels these people are barely afforded the freedom to leave their homes.

 

[fishonjazz]

I don't know for certain that it would have saved her life, but it is possible. The problem with mask mandates is that people believe that even if they haven't taken the vaccine at least they are doing something. It may not be the vaccine but it is something. It is bad messaging and I think it is going to get people killed. The reality is that EVERYONE is going to get COVID at some point. It appears there is no herd immunity with SARS-CoV-2. There was an LGBT Pride celebration in Massachusetts where all attendees were vaccinated with proof and it was still a super-spreader event.

If you think getting the vaccine means you will never get COVID, you are wrong. If you think wearing a mask and practicing social distancing will means you never get COVID, you are wrong. All of the ideas we had earlier in the pandemic about herd immunity or a vaccine eradicating SARS-CoV-2 are proving to be false. Now that we have this knowledge it is important to communicate the vaccine helps your immune system fight off an infection. When you get infected after you've been vaccinated it is like having a cold. It sucks but the vast majority get over it.

The old prevention messaging leaves an opening for anti-vaxxers to claim the vaccines don't work because people are still getting infected and for kids to die because their parents thought they were doing something with masking/social distancing. The whole idea of prevention has to go. There is no prevention. Everyone is going to get it. The messaging has to switch to one of how best to prepare your body to recover from your inevitable infection. Either you can get it when you're not vaccinated and hope your immune system is up to the task or you can get vaccinated to greatly improve the chances your immune system is up to the task.

I have never heard anyone who thinks masks are a great way to prevent covid.

 

[JazzyFresh]

On the topic of Australia it's proof that draconian lockdowns do nothing but prolong the exposure. Just like in California during the last wave. Everyone else was healing while California was getting crushed. I'm guessing it's going to happen again but hope I'm wrong. Closing your door and hiding is not going to stop this.

 

[RJF]

I have never heard anyone who thinks masks are a great way to prevent covid.

They’re all over Facebook.

 

[Douchebag K]

On the topic of Australia it's proof that draconian lockdowns do nothing but prolong the exposure. Just like in California during the last wave. Everyone else was healing while California was getting crushed. I'm guessing it's going to happen again but hope I'm wrong. Closing your door and hiding is not going to stop this.

Well we're about to have our pandemic soon. Thus far we've had fairly specific outbreaks from the hotel quarantine system and our state governments have chosen the elimination strategy by ordering strict extended lockdown to keep numbers of Covid cases to an absolute minimum. So in Melbourne now we're on like day 220 or so of full lockdown for the last 18 months. Most of the 800 fatalities have been in nursing homes / aged care during a big outbreak around July last year. There are still masses of areas that have never seen any Covid cases.

The more contagious delta variant has seen a small outbreak grow to roughly 200 a day at the moment and the state govt here has finally admitted it can't keep trying to eliminate the virus, and is now maintaining lockdown until 70-80% of people eligible have had at least one vaccine shot (although that keeps changing) And when restrictions do lift there will be a vaccine passport system for entering sporting events, concerts, indoor dining etc Also massive debates atm as to whether employers can mandate employees having to be vaccinated. We're currently under a legislated state of emergency including no right of protest, curfew, 5K fines for travelling more than 5km from home without it being for one of the mandated 5 reasons to leave home, people arrested for "incitement" ie protesting on social media. No interstate travel.

So thus far the longest harshest lockdowns anywhere in the world and our pandemic is likely just about to begin, and the hope is that the vaccine will be effective enough against people having to be hospitalised or dying while seeing an explosion relatively of case numbers. We shall see. The actions of our state government have been justified as being for the common good but i dare say compared to 800 predominantly very very elderly and frail people (and yes that is awful, i am not minimising that) the economic and societal cost has far far exceeded that to this point. We have a mental health epidemic, youth self harm numbers are staggering and the number of small business closures pretty horrific. I'm not sure if it's the same there but there seems to have been a real split of society into those in the public service, and with secure work from home-able jobs and smaller to medium sized business as to how to handle the pandemic. The bitch is there's really no one particular right or wrong answer.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

I have never heard anyone who thinks masks are a great way to prevent covid.

There would not be a push to impose mask mandates if that were true.

 

[fishonjazz]

They’re all over Facebook.

I think you are confused by people saying that masks can help as people saying that masks are great at preventing covid.


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[fishonjazz]

There would not be a push to impose mask mandates if that were true.

Why not?


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I have never heard anyone who thinks masks are a great way to prevent covid.

If everyone wore properly fitted N95 masks, it would be a great preventative for protection in both directions. Note that a N95 only works correctly if you have it fit tested to ensure the shape and size truly seals, and facial hair will prevent a proper seal.

My wife sees multiple hospitalized Covid patients per day, and has since day one (first patients off the cruise ship) and properly fitted mask and face shield have kept her Covid free. She also received both does of vaccine last December.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

If everyone wore properly fitted N95 masks, it would be a great preventative for protection in both directions. Note that a N95 only works correctly if you have it fit tested to ensure the shape and size truly seals, and facial hair will prevent a proper seal.

My wife sees multiple hospitalized Covid patients per day, and has since day one (first patients off the cruise ship) and properly fitted mask and face shield have kept her Covid free. She also received both does of vaccine last December.

Sure that works but if your wife is following proper protocols, and I have no reason to doubt it, it also includes nitrile gloves that along with the N95 mask gets changed in between every patient. The face shield goes up. The mask is removed. Pinch the wrist of the glove to remove it and use the inside-out removed glove to remove the glove from the other hand so you never touch the outside of either glove with your hands. Grab a new set of gloves. Put them on. Put on a new mask. Lower the face shield. See the new patient, then repeat, and repeat, and repeat. It works in hospitals and labs but you can't run a society that way.

For regular people it is best to get vaccinated, get fresh air, eat right and exercise. There are always going to be colds and flu. It isn't a nice thought but sadly there are tens or hundreds of thousands of people who die from colds and flu every year, and have ever since humans were a thing. That shouldn't prevent people from living life and it definitely isn't a justification to turn a continent into a prison. What is being done now in the name of COVID-19, and the control so many want to impose on other people's actions via government force is bonkers.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Sure that works but if your wife is following proper protocols, and I have no reason to doubt it, it also includes nitrile gloves that along with the N95 mask gets changed in between every patient. The face shield goes up. The mask is removed. Pinch the wrist of the glove to remove it and use the inside-out removed glove to remove the glove from the other hand so you never touch the outside of either glove with your hands. Grab a new set of gloves. Put them on. Put on a new mask. Lower the face shield. See the new patient, then repeat, and repeat, and repeat. It works in hospitals and labs but you can't run a society that way.

For regular people it is best to get vaccinated, get fresh air, eat right and exercise. There are always going to be colds and flu. It isn't a nice thought but sadly there are tens or hundreds of thousands of people who die from colds and flu every year, and have ever since humans were a thing. That shouldn't prevent people from living life and it definitely isn't a justification to turn a continent into a prison. What is being done now in the name of COVID-19, and the control so many want to impose on other people's actions via government force is bonkers.

Not sure what they are doing today, but for a long period of time they had one N95 for each Covid room, but they weren't testing every patient, and they'd use the same N95 for all other patients in the day, many of which ended up being Covid positive.

Not disagreeing, I do think vaccination is the best option, but masks, even cloth masks, can help. My kid was in full in person school form December on, and while a few kids got Covid, there were no outbreaks in any of our schools. They distanced and had masks the entire time. They are back in school now, with the same protocols, so we'll see if that still works with the more infectious Delta.

The funny thing to me, even with airlines, is you can take off your mask to eat or drink, which defeats the purpose. I also noted on a number of flights that every plane's air system is dirty as can be. (Edited w pic of dirty air vent, which was the same on four different planes).