Denmark becomes 4th country in Europe to ban full face coverings in public places

[MVP]

You could even argue that immunizations are body alterations "without consent". Doesn't mean I want someone to take my right away to do it.

Nobody takes away rights from the boys to get it done when they reach proper age to give informed consent. Now it is forced upon them by their parents. Same like religion. But the difference is I was raised and forced to be a catholic, but when I grew up and made my own research and developed understanding about it I had a perfectly easy choice to become an atheist. Circumcised boys on the other hand have limited chance to get it restored - both non surgical or surgical methods will never lead it to pre-circumcision status.

 

[Stoked]

A difference that people noticed very recently.

I think it is normal for a society to set their own standards when it comes to these things. If Danes find burqas to be symbolic of oppression and religious extremism, then it is reasonable for them to want to discourage it. After all, and partly in response to Downunder, a Western woman cannot dress as she chooses in many Muslim countries.

I agree that each society should set its own standards. And my input for my society is to stay the hell out of the business of government mandates on allowable wardrobe.

 

[Stoked]

Some things are done for cosmetic reason and can cause long lasting side effects - like cat declawing for example so that is certainly understandable why it was banned. As far as production animals go - yes there is some things like branding, castration and other procedures done which are for their intended purpose - meat of non castrated boar or bull will taste poorly compared to castrated one for example. But I understand what you mean, that line is pretty unclear even to me... if PETA would get their way no animals would be every used for any human purposes, including horse raiding as obviously horses do not consent for humans to use them for their own sports or pleasure. At the end of the day my point was that if we banned cosmetic and unnecessary surgeries for cats and dogs long time ago then why are we still doing it on infants who can't give a consent? Circumcision at the end of the day is just a cosmetic surgery as well.

Because it's none of your business.

 

[Siro]

I agree that each society should set its own standards. And my input for my society is to stay the hell out of the business of government mandates on allowable wardrobe.

Wardrobe standards exist in every society ever, including the US.

 

[Siro]

Can a woman go out topless? No. ****ing government butting in on my business!

 

[MVP]

Can a woman go out topless? No. ****ing government butting in on my business!

"Topfreedom is allowed in Ontario, set by the precedent in the case of Gwen Jacob. The acting executive director of Municipal Licensing and Standards said that while "there's no bylaw that governs toplessness", "it is legal for women to go topless on the streets of Toronto" according to a National Post article. He added that parks require clothing, except, for example, the clothing optional Hanlan's Point Beach."

 

[MVP]

Because it's none of your business.

Don't get me wrong, I would love some anarchy as well. I hate when government regulates that I can't keep any fish where I like to fish despite catching 50 a day.

 

[One Brow]

Because it's none of your business.

What if they are cutting off little toes instead? Is there anywhere the line gets drawn?

 

[fishonjazz]

So you do not think boys rights are violated? I am not even talking about medical part of the procedure as both long term positive or negative effects are described and documented ( BTW most of the urologist or pediatric associations of the world describe circumcision as unnecessary and do not recommend it). To me it just looks unethical to do any permanent alterations to somebody's body without it's consent.

Probably shouldn’t remove the umbilical cord either then. Baby didn’t consent.
What if the baby is born with a disfigurement that can be corrected by a simple surgery? Do we need the babies consent then or should he parents have some say in what they think is right for their baby?

 

[fishonjazz]

I expect you as a medical student to do all the research on the topic before making informed decision. A lot of African doctors would say that circumcised females are better in every way as well.

Females get circumcised? If it’s better for the female in every way then I think it should start being practiced much more.

I wish I would have had that info when my daughter was born. I would love to have my daughter have things done that make her better in every way.

 

[One Brow]

Probably shouldn’t remove the umbilical cord either then. Baby didn’t consent.

In the US, we don't. It falls off on it's own. Try again.

What if the baby is born with a disfigurement that can be corrected by a simple surgery? Do we need the babies consent then or should he parents have some say in what they think is right for their baby?

What if we have some nutcase argue that a penis foreskin is just like a disfigurement? Should we continue to allow them to post?

 

[One Brow]

Females get circumcised? If it’s better for the female in every way then I think it should start being practiced much more.

I wish I would have had that info when my daughter was born. I would love to have my daughter have things done that make her better in every way.

My apologies to everyone for feeding the troll.

 

[Siro]

Why shouldn't parents have a right to raise their **** trophies into the style they are? They are your children and you are responsible to raise them to be constructive adults. Decisions have to be made. If a hijab is customary but not forcibly then why not? If it's forced and taking away from women then why? That's a grey area that needs discretion, discretion that won't be applied equally just like any other civil law.

In the Middle East at least, the hijab is very much considered by most to be a mandatory religious rite. Some dispute that, but it is, nonetheless, the view of most people, even those who choose not to wear it. So many girls are either directly forced into wearing it (because many religious Sunni Muslims think that NOT forcing their girls to wear hijab counts as a sin on the parents (God keeps a tally of your good and bad deeds to determine if you're going into heaven)), or indirectly through normal socialization means (you'll go to hell if you don't; you're a whore if you want strangers to find you attractive; hijab maintains a woman's self-respect and dignity; etc). Also, niqab or burqa or whatever you wanna call it is on the rise. Growing up in Jordan, I never saw a woman with her face covered. When I visited a few years ago, it had become somewhat of a common sight. For some Muslims, the hijab is no longer sufficient, and the women are now forced to cover their faces as well.

To me, a burka is a **** "tradition" that barely meets the standards for what is consensual. I don't see why sucking it up and allowing an alien tradition that a society sees as harmful and oppressive is a position worth fighting for. That said, I am sympathetic to Dalamon's argument about alienating Muslims and hardening salafist attitudes. That is a possibility. But it is also unrealistic to expect that level of stoicism and moral relativism in a human society, even if what he's saying is true.

And good job on the **** trophies term. It's hilarious, and I'll be stealing it.

 

[fishonjazz]

Slavery was commonly practiced by virtually everyone since humans came to be. Far more ancient and prevelant than circumcision. Something having been done for a while is not a good reason to keep it around.

The parental thing doesn't take into account the rights to the child. Are you okay with female circumcision?

Is female circumcision beneficial to her? Is so, then hell ya.

 

[Siro]

Is female circumcision beneficial to her? Is so, then hell ya.

The intention of female circumcision is to remove the woman's ability to enjoy sex. Whether that is beneficial, I'll leave to the reader to decide.

 

[Siro]

The intention of female circumcision is to remove the woman's ability to enjoy sex. Whether that is beneficial, I'll leave to the reader to decide.

And of course, you'll see scores of women who defend that practice with the exact same reasoning they use for burkas.

 

[fishonjazz]

Nobody takes away rights from the boys to get it done when they reach proper age to give informed consent. Now it is forced upon them by their parents. Same like religion. But the difference is I was raised and forced to be a catholic, but when I grew up and made my own research and developed understanding about it I had a perfectly easy choice to become an atheist. Circumcised boys on the other hand have limited chance to get it restored - both non surgical or surgical methods will never lead it to pre-circumcision status.

Do you know lots of circumcised boys that are trying to get their foreskins back? I have never met anyone who is circumcised and is all upset about it. Pretty sure I never will.
I also have never met an uncircumcised person who is unhappy about it.

I’m think almost 100% of people are ok either way. It’s really a non issue imo.

 

[MVP]

Probably shouldn’t remove the umbilical cord either then. Baby didn’t consent.
What if the baby is born with a disfigurement that can be corrected by a simple surgery? Do we need the babies consent then or should he parents have some say in what they think is right for their baby?

Bad example with disfigurement. Foreskin is perfectly normal part of male anatomy. Umbilical cord, well, One Brow already replied.

 

[Siro]

Do you know lots of circumcised boys that are trying to get their foreskins back? I have never met anyone who is circumcised and is all upset about it. Pretty sure I never will.
I also have never met an uncircumcised person who is unhappy about it.

I’m think almost 100% of people are ok either way. It’s really a non issue imo.

There are tons of men who attempt to restore their foreskins. It is indeed an issue for many people, even if it isn't for you.

I'd link you the wikipedia article, but it got peepee pictures in it.

 

[fishonjazz]

In the US, we don't. It falls off on it's own. Try again.



What if we have some nutcase argue that a penis foreskin is just like a disfigurement? Should we continue to allow them to post?

I wasn’t comparing disfigurement to circumcision. You did that.
MVP was saying we shouldn’t do things to babies without consent. Maybe that baby would prefer to keep the disfigurement if allowed to choose but never got the chance.