Disregard Mirotic, Aquire Favors!

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Yes. Reports from both sides said we dangled both Favors (expiring) and Burks (one more year) but they were holding out for a first rounder. It was widely known around the entire league that he was available for a first rounder. They ended up taking back some really bad salary to get that pick.

The problem was that the league saw what Donovan and Kuzma did as mid-to-late first rounders and everyone got penis-brain about first rounders. Also, anyone looking at it would have known Rudy was coming back and there was no tank. Had we offered up a protected pick, that should have nabbed him, too, before Cousins went down.

DL addressed deadline issues around the deadline on The Big Show. He beat around the bush on the specifics, but indicated he doesn’t know if not moving that pick was or wasn’t the right decision, and that time would tell.

The problem is that we try to make these decisions look clear and black and white and do not acknowledge uncertainty in many decisions. There are probably a lot of things DL is certain about, but there are plenty that we’re not. They’ve admitted to uncertainty with how the roster was constructed but it happened to pay off.

My take (my opinion only) is that DL wanted Mirotic but, surveying the landscape, didn’t think Chicago had other options and thought he could have his cake and eat it by waiting it out and picking him up with second rounders. The narrative kept getting pushed out there that there’s “no way” the Jazz will trade their pick for him. Now whether they would have or not, they made that statement public (gambling, I presume, on the fact that nobody would give up a first). Even if DL would have hypothetically given up the pick, the corner we were in made that impossible.

My bottom line on this: DL wanted Mirotic but also wanted to get him while also keeping our pick. Did DL want him enough to obtain him when he was easily obtainable? The answer to that is clearly no. Would he have done it differently in hindsight? I have no idea.

Thanks for the recap.

DL got greedy with this one.

Yep, but there might be other factors that we don't understand. For instance, he might have his eye on someone he thinks will be a hidden gem in the draft. Or he might be all-in on Favors and felt that this trade would send Favors a mixed message before resigning. Personally, I have loved watching Favors development and really, really want to see him back. Given DL's resume and the fact that he has a lot more info available to him that I do, I feel very comfortable with his decision making. He was my Dad's neighbor for a while. Wish I'd met him during that time.

 

[NUMBERICA]

DL got greedy with this one.

I don't know that trying to retain a high-value asset (1st round picks are unquestionably high value assets, if only on the market) for a team lacking tradable assets could be described as "greedy".

There were a lot of variables to consider, and we won't know what the right call was for a number of years, if ever. Right now, seems like they should've pulled the trigger. However, I am skeptical of the idea of both Favors and Mirotic being here harmoniously, so the Favors-love fest seems pretty incongruous to wishing the Jazz would've pulled the trigger on Mirotic.

 

[fishonjazz]

Thanks for the recap.
Yep, but there might be other factors that we don't understand. For instance, he might have his eye on someone he thinks will be a hidden gem in the draft. Or he might be all-in on Favors and felt that this trade would send Favors a mixed message before resigning. Personally, I have loved watching Favors development and really, really want to see him back. Given DL's resume and the fact that he has a lot more info available to him that I do, I feel very comfortable with his decision making. He was my Dad's neighbor for a while. Wish I'd met him during that time.

Agreed. Hell i love what we have going on (bake the cake) and maybe mirotic screws things up.

 

[LoPo]

Hindsight is 20/20.

In January, we were debating playoffs vs tanking. A potential midlottery pick and Burks for a regressing Mirotic was risky. Nobody got greedy. They played it safe. And we should all be happy with the results.

- we made the playoffs as the 5 seed
- our division rivals Portland are collapsing
- our offense and defense found themselves
- Mitchell has emerged as budding superstar


I'm not crying over spilled milk. We have too much to be thankful for...

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Ron Mexico]

Obviously the Jazz would have put a lottery protection on the pick had they traded it.

 

[infection]

Obviously the Jazz would have put a lottery protection on the pick had they traded it.

Yeah but then a lot of people freaked out because it would tie up future picks and prevent them from being used as assets to trade. But that’s slightly ironic, because people didn’t want to give up flexibility. But what’s preventing us from grabbing Niko now? Not having the assets NO would want. Funny how these decisions don’t exist in a vacuum.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah but then a lot of people freaked out because it would tie up future picks and prevent them from being used as assets to trade. But that’s slightly ironic, because people didn’t want to give up flexibility. But what’s preventing us from grabbing Niko now? Not having the assets NO would want. Funny how these decisions don’t exist in a vacuum.

In defense of me I didn’t think we’d end up being this good and felt it would really only benefit us next year.

I’m not going to cry but I’d like a do over please.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yes. Reports from both sides said we dangled both Favors (expiring) and Burks (one more year) but they were holding out for a first rounder. It was widely known around the entire league that he was available for a first rounder. They ended up taking back some really bad salary to get that pick.

The problem was that the league saw what Donovan and Kuzma did as mid-to-late first rounders and everyone got penis-brain about first rounders. Also, anyone looking at it would have known Rudy was coming back and there was no tank. Had we offered up a protected pick, that should have nabbed him, too, before Cousins went down.

DL addressed deadline issues around the deadline on The Big Show. He beat around the bush on the specifics, but indicated he doesn’t know if not moving that pick was or wasn’t the right decision, and that time would tell.

The problem is that we try to make these decisions look clear and black and white and do not acknowledge uncertainty in many decisions. There are probably a lot of things DL is certain about, but there are plenty that we’re not. They’ve admitted to uncertainty with how the roster was constructed but it happened to pay off.

My take (my opinion only) is that DL wanted Mirotic but, surveying the landscape, didn’t think Chicago had other options and thought he could have his cake and eat it by waiting it out and picking him up with second rounders. The narrative kept getting pushed out there that there’s “no way” the Jazz will trade their pick for him. Now whether they would have or not, they made that statement public (gambling, I presume, on the fact that nobody would give up a first). Even if DL would have hypothetically given up the pick, the corner we were in made that impossible.

My bottom line on this: DL wanted Mirotic but also wanted to get him while also keeping our pick. Did DL want him enough to obtain him when he was easily obtainable? The answer to that is clearly no. Would he have done it differently in hindsight? I have no idea.

This is how I see it too... I don’t blame DL because teams often end up settling and I thought that is what would happen.

If we could have gotten Niko for seconds and kept our pick that is a homer run... sometimes when you swing for the fences you strike out.

 

[infection]

This is how I see it too... I don’t blame DL because teams often end up settling and I thought that is what would happen.

If we could have gotten Niko for seconds and kept our pick that is a homer run... sometimes when you swing for the fences you strike out.

I don’t disagree, but in that analogy we had a runner on third. Home run would be cool, but a single wins the game.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don’t disagree, but in that analogy we had a runner on third. Home run would be cool, but a single wins the game.

Did we punt the eff outta that trade?

 

[framer]

I don’t disagree, but in that analogy we had a runner on third. Home run would be cool, but a single wins the game.

Except that we likely traded Favors for Niko. Because we weren't keeping them both. Now if Favors moves on this offseason, we have a problem.

 

[idiot]

It looks like infection is absolutely right that we could have had Niko for Burks + 2018 1st. It looks like a bad decision at this point, unless DL pulls rabbit out of his hat with the pick.

But in addition to the takes which I thought were bad at the time and which have clearly not born out now (Jazz might be tanking, Niko's not really good) here's some complicating factors. These are not to argue that the trade shouldn't have been made, but just to throw a little complexity into the scenario:

• It didn't seem to make a lot of sense to trade for Niko and keep Favors (both should be starters). DL might have been trying to find a return for Favors that was similar to the return Chicago was asking for Niko (a first rounder), but never found one. He may have even been holding off on a Niko trade in order to find a good trade, and then events intervened with New Orleans willing to pull the trigger on the 1st rounder more quickly.
• We don't know if Chicago would have accepted lottery protection on the first-round pick. Perhaps they were holding out until someone gave something better (as NO did with only top-five protection).
• As accurate as Infection was that the Jazz weren't tanking, there's no reason for the Jazz to have been fully confident that they'd make the playoffs. We barely made it in as it was with an insane last 35 games. Our pick could very easily have been 12-14, even without tanking. That's a someone different calculation than the 21st pick (even if the odds are still better with Niko).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...cus-cousins-new-orleans-pelicans-nba-playoffs

Going to go ahead and say that acquiring Niko ain't happening. I had hoped they'd be dumb and sell him off to keep DMC and appease Davis. Sounds like they will try and limit how much exposure they have on the next DMC contract and let him walk if need be. The other option being selling off more picks to shave some salary.

Anyway... I'm saying goodbye to Niko until FA 2019.

 

[sahlensguy]

Except that we likely traded Favors for Niko. Because we weren't keeping them both. Now if Favors moves on this offseason, we have a problem.

I'm in a win now mode and Favors is better for this team right now. The chemistry we have is off the charts. I don't see Mitchell hugging Mirotic after the game last night. He did Favors though. I'll never say 'what ifs' about this trade from now on.

 

[gomretat]

DL got greedy with this one.

Perhaps, but my guess is that there is a lot more behind the scenes than we know.

 

[sahlensguy]

It looks like infection is absolutely right that we could have had Niko for Burks + 2018 1st. It looks like a bad decision at this point, unless DL pulls rabbit out of his hat with the pick.

But in addition to the takes which I thought were bad at the time and which have clearly not born out now (Jazz might be tanking, Niko's not really good) here's some complicating factors. These are not to argue that the trade shouldn't have been made, but just to throw a little complexity into the scenario:

• It didn't seem to make a lot of sense to trade for Niko and keep Favors (both should be starters). DL might have been trying to find a return for Favors that was similar to the return Chicago was asking for Niko (a first rounder), but never found one. He may have even been holding off on a Niko trade in order to find a good trade, and then events intervened with New Orleans willing to pull the trigger on the 1st rounder more quickly.
• We don't know if Chicago would have accepted lottery protection on the first-round pick. Perhaps they were holding out until someone gave something better (as NO did with only top-five protection).
• As accurate as Infection was that the Jazz weren't tanking, there's no reason for the Jazz to have been fully confident that they'd make the playoffs. We barely made it in as it was with an insane last 35 games. Our pick could very easily have been 12-14, even without tanking. That's a someone different calculation than the 21st pick (even if the odds are still better with Niko).

Thing is, we don't know the effect Niko would have had with our teams chemistry. That chemistry is the strength of the team. In my myopic opinion, I don't remember seeing anything like it. We'll never know how adding a new player at the trade deadline would have changed things, but could it be any better than we are without him? Most likely not.

I'm good without him.

 

[sahlensguy]

Perhaps, but my guess is that there is a lot more behind the scenes than we know.

Is the non trade not working out beautifully?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Favs has been really good so if the trade would have cost us Favs I’m not sure I 100% do it now.

Didn’t mean to rehash this just thought the article was relevant and it sounds like they consider Niko part of the core going forward. Again... re-signing cousins and not finding a taker for Hill will put them in LT hell when the try and re-sign him in 2019.

 

[Jack Strop]

Favs has been really good so if the trade would have cost us Favs I’m not sure I 100% do it now.

Didn’t mean to rehash this just thought the article was relevant and it sounds like they consider Niko part of the core going forward. Again... re-signing cousins and not finding a taker for Hill will put them in LT hell when the try and re-sign him in 2019.

Cant they stretch Hill's contract? Besides, one year of luxury tax is probably acceptable for most teams.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Cant they stretch Hill's contract? Besides, one year of luxury tax is probably acceptable for most teams.

They will be in luxury tax two years in a row ( if they bring back Niko and DMC) and the team has ducked the tax before. They may just pay it but they were losing money already... adding another 30-40M to those loses is not ideal... they also need some help on the wing... read the article... it laid out the issue pretty well. If they didn’t sign cousins they could use the MLE to get help on the wing.

They could stretch hill, but like 27M over five years and losing a functional player isn’t ideal. They will stretch Ajinca and likely look to move Hill with their 2019 pick at some point next year... I think they will find a taker... it seems like he is similar to demarre Carroll last year.

IDK but they have hard decisions coming.