Disregard Mirotic, Aquire Favors!

[Handlogten's Heros]

There is a bond there... have seen enough to know it isn’t just talk. If he leaves because of financial issues it will be the straw that breaks ADs back and he will ask out...

I think they are more likely to trade another first rounder to move Hill than to let Boogie walk.

Honestly if I was a cap space team I might try and offer the max to Boogie to see if you can trick NO into a 5 year deal or push them higher than they want to go...

 

[infection]

It’s where I thought you were mentally last night watching Niko.

Because the blue balls effect with that Niko thread, I think I’d be obligated to buy a Niko jersey, first jersey I’d ever purchase, if we got him.

 

[fishonjazz]

1. We dangled both Burks and Favors but Chicago wanted a first rounder. They would have taken our deal as you see they took NO’s deal.
2. NO only came into the picture in the 11th hour because of the Boogie injury.
3. Always take the bird in hand when you’ve got it; the landscape changes fast (see #2).
4. I’ve remained doubtful about him being acquirable. Yeah, we can project tax landscape, but again, the landscape of the league can change fast.
5. I always said our pick wasn’t going to be that good.
6. Next year we could have had Niko rather than Burks.
7. He’s an 18 PPG guy in our system, by picking up what the offense gives him.
8. I’ve rupture both my achilles tendons in the past 5 years. Boogie’s rupture was more painful than both of them.

I was one of the only ones willing to give a first for him. I wouldn't have even made them take burks. Niko good. Especially at shooting/scoring the basketball. Something we could use. Right age. Rebounds. Wanted to be here (supposedly). I think we blew it. Then again, we look pretty darn good without him.
Maybe we still get him down the road but they should have pulled the trigger with the 1st imo.

 

[framer]

One of the realities that I have had to adjust to is that a 21 pick is a valuable commodity. Personally I think they are overrated, and would almost always trade for a proven commodity.

Then I remember that we were able to get Spida because we kept a "worthless" 20's pick. I also have to remember that there are few teams right now that I would trust more to nab a guy at that spot and train them to be what they want him to be than the Utah Jazz. No other team does the work on the back end to recognize these guys than the Jazz do.

It is quite possible that they know who they want in the draft or on a bench somewhere else and THAT dude is the priority over Nico. In that case that 21 pick is more valuable.

 

[zman1527]

One of the realities that I have had to adjust to is that a 21 pick is a valuable commodity. Personally I think they are overrated, and would almost always trade for a proven commodity.

Then I remember that we were able to get Spida because we kept a "worthless" 20's pick. I also have to remember that there are few teams right now that I would trust more to nab a guy at that spot and train them to be what they want him to be than the Utah Jazz. No other team does the work on the back end to recognize these guys than the Jazz do.

It is quite possible that they know who they want in the draft or on a bench somewhere else and THAT dude is the priority over Nico. In that case that 21 pick is more valuable.

Yeah, but now you have Spida and Rudy in their PRIME! What's the odds of getting someone at 21 who is an impact player and can develop soon enough to go with Spida and Rudy? You gonna wait 3 to 4 years? I would absolutely go for a proven commodity over the risk of draft pick. Our future is now.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I've gotta think that Favors is going to want to stick around. These guys have a special bond. Did you guys see the post-game interview with Rubio and his son, Favors, Donovan and Rudy all sitting at the table together fielding questions?

Based on his last contract he's not the kind of guy to base his decision solely on money.

Yeah, great chemistry. I hope it convinces Favors to stay. I'm with you. I think it could. Also, btw, that wasn't Rubio's son.

 

[framer]

Yeah, but now you have Spida and Rudy in their PRIME! What's the odds of getting someone at 21 who is an impact player and can develop soon enough to go with Spida and Rudy? You gonna wait 3 to 4 years? I would absolutely go for a proven commodity over the risk of draft pick. Our future is now.

We know that Niko, as-is, isn't much of an asset. I don't know why, but that is what the limited market is for him. He is barely worth the 20 pick to a team that really needs him. The Jazz know what they want and presumably what it will take to get it. I'm sure that pick falls in there somewhere. If the deal was there and they passed, they did it for a reason. They aren't shy about pulling the trigger. I can only assume that, absent a truly spectacular deal, they have other plans for that forward spot and the pick is instrumental in that.

That plan may likely be paying Favors and using the pick elsewhere.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

They could offer a contract like they did with Ingles, front load it so as Gobert's and others increase, Favors decreases a bit. Give some wiggle room in the future.
Instead of 12.5 - 12.5 - 12.5 - 12.5 you give him 15.0 - 13.0 - 11.5 - 10.5

If all QO's and TO's are kept, they still have 24M to spend to get to the salary cap of $108M next year, and only 2 roster spots to fill. If they don't re up Jerebko that's another $4M and another roster spot.
I would assume we keep Jerebko, and that Exum and Neto are given and accept their QO's.

I say this because beyond next year we will have to look at contract options for Rubio, and the other players not named Gobert, Ingles and DM if we want to keep them.

Whatever they do now I don't see as an issue this year, or even next year for the most part, but it could be an issue 3-5 years out if done poorly.

 

[latin jazz]

Regarding tradig away our first at the deadline for Mirotic, let's remember the context a couple of months ago:

• Making the playoffs wasn't a sure thing at the time, thus our pick could have been anywhere between 10-20. Almost no one expected us to be this good.
• The Jazz has one of the best scouting in the league. They invest a lot of money on international scouting, and also locally. Consider how hard is to trade away picks in consecutive years. They did it last year bc they were in win-now mode (also were not impressed by the players available at 12th). Much harder to pull the triger when you don't know where the pick is going to land and when you are not certain about the direction of the team.
• We were winning some games and it seems DL decided to go for smaller moves to improve team chemistry/fit. He wasn't ready to hit a home-run. With all the information we have know, it's clear we are closer to contention than we thought. Maybe one player away. If that player becomes available, DL will be more likely to move a pick+players. I'm looking forward for how we perform this playoffs and then this off-season. our window is not in 2 years but now

 

[Jazz4ever]

As Cy said, Niko's play was poor in February and March. You just don't dismiss 25 games and pretend they never happened. No one would have predicted the Jazz went on a tear resulting in the pick going from 12 (at the time) down to pick 21. DL's decision to pass on him at the time was solid.

 

[fishonjazz]

As Cy said, Niko's play was poor in February and March. You just don't dismiss 25 games and pretend they never happened. No one would have predicted the Jazz went on a tear resulting in the pick going from 12 (at the time) down to pick 21. DL's decision to pass on him at the time was solid.

Ya the jazz were playing great but they wouldn’t have had to give up anyone in the rotation to get niko so why wouldn’t they continue to play great by adding him?

 

[fishonjazz]

When you can get a really good player who is a perfect fit on the team basically for free I think you should always do it. Just my opinion.

 

[LoPo]

I don't see why NOLA would trade Mirotic now. That ship has sailed. Their financial "issues" don't exist to the level some are saying.

Burks and #21 seems great now, but seemed awful risky in February. I'm happy where we are. If Favors stays at an affordable number, good. If he leaves, so be it.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[fishonjazz]

I don't see why NOLA would trade Mirotic now. That ship has sailed. Their financial "issues" don't exist to the level some are saying.

Burks and #21 seems great now, but seemed awful risky in February. I'm happy where we are. If Favors stays at an affordable number, good. If he leaves, so be it.

Sent from my VS995 using JazzFanz mobile app

Never seemed risky to me. Everyone wants burks gone it seems and a non lottery pick typically wont end up as good as niko who also happens to be a perfect fit and reportedly wanted to play for the jazz.
imo it was a no brainer. I think the jazz just got greedy and made a mistake.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

When you can get a really good player who is a perfect fit on the team basically for free I think you should always do it. Just my opinion.

They were going to give him to us for free and we didn't take him?

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Never seemed risky to me. Everyone wants burks gone it seems and a non lottery pick typically wont end up as good as niko who also happens to be a perfect fit and reportedly wanted to play for the jazz.
imo it was a no brainer. I think the jazz just got greedy and made a mistake.

Is it a known thing that we could have acquired Miritek for Burks and our first? That would have been a pretty good deal for the Jazz, especially now that our first is worth a lot less than everyone thought it was going to be. I didn't follow this trade closely enough to know whether it failed because the Jazz didn't pull the trigger, or because they kept shopping him and NO came in with a better offer. What did NO give up?

 

[Medianz]

Nemanja Bjelica under Snyder would be awesome.

 

[infection]

Is it a known thing that we could have acquired Miritek for Burks and our first? That would have been a pretty good deal for the Jazz, especially now that our first is worth a lot less than everyone thought it was going to be. I didn't follow this trade closely enough to know whether it failed because the Jazz didn't pull the trigger, or because they kept shopping him and NO came in with a better offer. What did NO give up?

Yes. Reports from both sides said we dangled both Favors (expiring) and Burks (one more year) but they were holding out for a first rounder. It was widely known around the entire league that he was available for a first rounder. They ended up taking back some really bad salary to get that pick.

The problem was that the league saw what Donovan and Kuzma did as mid-to-late first rounders and everyone got penis-brain about first rounders. Also, anyone looking at it would have known Rudy was coming back and there was no tank. Had we offered up a protected pick, that should have nabbed him, too, before Cousins went down.

DL addressed deadline issues around the deadline on The Big Show. He beat around the bush on the specifics, but indicated he doesn’t know if not moving that pick was or wasn’t the right decision, and that time would tell.

The problem is that we try to make these decisions look clear and black and white and do not acknowledge uncertainty in many decisions. There are probably a lot of things DL is certain about, but there are plenty that we’re not. They’ve admitted to uncertainty with how the roster was constructed but it happened to pay off.

My take (my opinion only) is that DL wanted Mirotic but, surveying the landscape, didn’t think Chicago had other options and thought he could have his cake and eat it by waiting it out and picking him up with second rounders. The narrative kept getting pushed out there that there’s “no way” the Jazz will trade their pick for him. Now whether they would have or not, they made that statement public (gambling, I presume, on the fact that nobody would give up a first). Even if DL would have hypothetically given up the pick, the corner we were in made that impossible.

My bottom line on this: DL wanted Mirotic but also wanted to get him while also keeping our pick. Did DL want him enough to obtain him when he was easily obtainable? The answer to that is clearly no. Would he have done it differently in hindsight? I have no idea.

 

[fishonjazz]

Is it a known thing that we could have acquired Miritek for Burks and our first?

Yes.
We didn't think we needed to give up the first rounder. Thought we could get him for less. We were greedy.
At least that seems to be the narrative. And most fans didn't want to give a first either. I think that infection and myself were about the only ones who wanted the jazz to pull the trigger. (might have been a few others)

 

[fishonjazz]

Yes. Reports from both sides said we dangled both Favors (expiring) and Burks (one more year) but they were holding out for a first rounder. It was widely known around the entire league that he was available for a first rounder. They ended up taking back some really bad salary to get that pick.

The problem was that the league saw what Donovan and Kuzma did as mid-to-late first rounders and everyone got penis-brain about first rounders. Also, anyone looking at it would have known Rudy was coming back and there was no tank. Had we offered up a protected pick, that should have nabbed him, too, before Cousins went down.

DL addressed deadline issues around the deadline on The Big Show. He beat around the bush on the specifics, but indicated he doesn’t know if not moving that pick was or wasn’t the right decision, and that time would tell.

The problem is that we try to make these decisions look clear and black and white and do not acknowledge uncertainty in many decisions. There are probably a lot of things DL is certain about, but there are plenty that we’re not. They’ve admitted to uncertainty with how the roster was constructed but it happened to pay off.

My take (my opinion only) is that DL wanted Mirotic but, surveying the landscape, didn’t think Chicago had other options and thought he could have his cake and eat it by waiting it out and picking him up with second rounders. The narrative kept getting pushed out there that there’s “no way” the Jazz will trade their pick for him. Now whether they would have or not, they made that statement public (gambling, I presume, on the fact that nobody would give up a first). Even if DL would have hypothetically given up the pick, the corner we were in made that impossible.

My bottom line on this: DL wanted Mirotic but also wanted to get him while also keeping our pick. Did DL want him enough to obtain him when he was easily obtainable? The answer to that is clearly no. Would he have done it differently in hindsight? I have no idea.

DL got greedy with this one.