But he was the #1 pick in a stronger draft .. lol. Love how we all analyze everything in every way imagineable, really.
ENES KANTER: The third and last game of the preparation tourney will start in half an hour
- Thread starter sepanol
- Start date
But he was the #1 pick in a stronger draft .. lol. Love how we all analyze everything in every way imagineable, really.
larryselbows
Banned
You know what, after these 3 games, i actually think Deron-Kanter would be a perfect pick n roll duo because Kanter is very active and mobile and he eats too much space while screening that would give Deron a real good flexibility on the offensive end. I think we should immediately try to send Harris and get a playmaker PG rather than scorer one.
MattMan
Active Member
Very, very true. There's not a big in the NBA that could put up "dominating" numbers with that horrid ball distribution.
This thread shouldn't even be focusing on Kanter's performance in three games, but rather the continued lack of information that we can actually judge the kid on. If positions 1-3 are only out for themselves and seem to think the paint is lava, we gain nothing from analyzing our 3rd round pick.
I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, but the fact of the matter is that anyone here that claims they have a conclusion as to what kind of player Kanter will be in the NBA needs to get a butt flap installed on their pants. It's tough to hear you guys talking out of your asses when it's all muffled.
The truth is, he has too work very very hard to be a good elite PF offensively, like Nowitzki, Bosh or even Griffin now. But i think his gamestyle is very very suitable for nba and he will frustrate lots of intense PFs in his first year. Because he is very strong and mobile. And his defense seems ok, i dont believe it will be a deficiency for the team defense to have him like it was with Boozer or Big Al.
Only thing is, im not as optimistic as before for his rookie year. He has to work damn hard to be a good go-to-guy in last mins. There is a saying in Turkish, i will implement that to Enes, He has to eat 40 bakeries of bread to be a consistent offensive threat in nba.
... I guess not all can be good contributions.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
The fact of the matter is, that this draft didn't contain a lebron or Dwight.
So what if he was picked at #3? Look at the #1 pick, and he's anything but a guaranteed superstar. Same with Derrick Williams at #2. If Kanter ends up being a good player/role player, consider that a success. Even most experts agreed that this draft probably didn't contain a super star. But a bunch of good role players/fringe all stars.
I think everyone wants Kanter to be Shaq or Karl Malone. In reality, we should be thinking more Boozer, David Lee, or Kevin love.
Burks and Kanter can and probably will be good players in the future. But I think many jazz fans are too eager to find the next "franchise player" Deron Williams or Karl Malone with these guys. I can understand the frustration, we've been in the lottery for 2 straight years without getting Lebron. But with Hayward, Kanter, and Burks, we probably did the best with the chips that we were given.
So what if he was picked at #3? Look at the #1 pick, and he's anything but a guaranteed superstar. Same with Derrick Williams at #2. If Kanter ends up being a good player/role player, consider that a success. Even most experts agreed that this draft probably didn't contain a super star. But a bunch of good role players/fringe all stars.
I think everyone wants Kanter to be Shaq or Karl Malone. In reality, we should be thinking more Boozer, David Lee, or Kevin love.
Burks and Kanter can and probably will be good players in the future. But I think many jazz fans are too eager to find the next "franchise player" Deron Williams or Karl Malone with these guys. I can understand the frustration, we've been in the lottery for 2 straight years without getting Lebron. But with Hayward, Kanter, and Burks, we probably did the best with the chips that we were given.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I agree. Enes is raw. You have to figure Jefferson, Favors and Millsap are all in line to get 30 mins each. If Okur comes back, he takes the remaining minutes. Even if Millsap plays some 3, there isn't much PT for Kanter unless one of the bigs misses some games. But that's ok; Kanter was drafted 3rd because of his potential, not because he's ready to be a starter. Regardless of what he does as a rookie, I think you need to wait 3-4 years to see how he develops before you can really judge the pick.
Zerol
Active Member
I am just not sure people understand that. Some suggest we should trade Jefferson because they think Kanter is already better than him now.
I did not watch Enes 2 years ago but the some serious commentators in Turkey clearly said that he did not seem to progress much in the last two years. While he was working with high school kids or alone, Jonas V was playing in the Euroleague. At the end of the day, Enes got what he wanted: became a top three pick; however, his game does not seem to develop much. Hedo and Memo played Euroleague Final 4 before coming to the NBA. Omer Asik, broke top 16 shot blocking record. Enes was in the roster of a Euroleague team at the age of 16, and could have become a better player at this stage; but he chose to move to US. Anyway, he is still 19 and has significant room to grow as a player. Perhaps, the time he spent in US will help him during his rookie year.
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
If this scenario comes true as you propose, then this is worse than the Fesenko Fail, given that (1) Kanter probably has more combined talent (offensively and defensively) than Fes, and (2) Kanter is a far higher priority as a 3rd pick overall. Because of (2), I do believe that Kanter will get more burn than Fes (not that doing so is hard).
As before, my mantra is that bigs should get minimum 10 MPG game whenever possible without risking W's and that bigs can get some minutes simply when the "rotation" bigs on the court are dogging it or need a rest. Unless Okur somehow comes back with better defense (and more convincing offence than a "money 3", then Okur should be the one whose minutes should be shaved to allow Kanter on the court. Furthermore, less than 30 minutes (maybe even as little as 25 minutes) is still plenty for Favors, Jefferson, and Millsap. Whichever of these players does well on any given night can be allocated a little more as the game progresses.
It is not who is better but Jefferson will not provide us anything in the long term anymore. And we can use him as a trade asset and get something more useful for teams future. Enter playoffs this year wont make any difference, i would prefer to see our young team on the court even though they make mistakes everyday. Then we may not enter playoffs this year but those young will have a better progress like Oklahoma did 2-3 years ago
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
Not sure your basis for saying this. Big Al made strides this year, improving his shot variety, and even playing defense. With more effort and skill development, he could be a cornerstone. A frontcourt of Jefferson/Favors, Hayward/Millsap, and and Kanter/(Fesenko or replacement) has the potential of being very good.
Wow some of you guys are in mid-season form with your negative comments. These are practice games with guys who haven't even played that much together. Considering Kanter has not played in over a year and he is playing with the national team for the first time, I think everyone should calm down and relax. Claiming Kanter a bust at this point makes you look pretty silly and dumb. I also think everyone should lower their expectations a little on Kanter. He is going to take some time but I think he will become a solid player.
My idea for Jefferson is quite clear and it wont change too easily. He is talented and has good foot skills in the post. But he sucks in the defense. Just making a couple of blocks doesnt prove you are a good defender which Jefferson is really clumsy and doesnt know where to take position in defense. He has some good offensive skills but it is a big weakness not to have a consistent mid range jump shot. In normal season it may not hurt us much but in playoff it will limit Big Al and our offense so much.
Probably he will stay 1 more and will be the leading scoring in the team, but it still doesnt make him cornerstone or something. I would trade Big Al right now, get a good pg or maybe a good draft pick for this year, and let Kanter - Favors start right away with all their faults while millsap is taking major mins off the bench. Maybe they will struggle a lot for this year but it will help them grow much quicker. For me it doesnt bring us any good to limit Kanter and Favors playing time just to grab 5-6 more wins this year. We should draw our path clearly and move on instead of relying on Harris or Jefferson. I also dont believe that Big Al wants to commit his future with us, he seemed too frustrated last year in that chaotic time.
Fishsticks
Banned
I agree with this statement, but how do wemknow kanter will be even half the player jefferson is now. Even the "rational" people are saying in this weak draft we should be happy with just a decent player. Favors is the future of the jazz. Kanter will be a nice starter for us, but those that say he is going to be better than 16 and 8, ahem pkm, are just as "dumb" as me saying he is bust at 3. My defenition of a bust at 3 is a dude who get 13 and 7 and cant d up against athletic post players or score against athletic post players. He is not crafty enough to have no explosion. He will get his *** handed to him every game. I hope i am wrong, but the euro big translation to the nba has not been a very successful one.
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
One problem with your argument: every once in a while, Jefferson played "the defense". So he sucks "in the defense" at least in part because he doesn't try and/or isn't focused--and because this coaching staff (and the coaching regime that preceded it) didn't enforce defense (even thought they gave lip service to it).
If the Jazz can get a really good guard out of AJ, then maybe I'd consider a trade. But AJ is making too much to be particularly tradeable, and a legit team needs at least 3 legit players at the 4/5 spot. (Millsap counts for only 90% of a legit player heightwise /ducking/).
This is too funny. I'm dumb because I think he's capable of 16 and 8 or better, but you're saying 13 and 7 is a bust (not a whole lot of margin of error between the two, imo). To be clear, you said Enes will go down as one of the biggest draft busts ever. Seems you've softened on that, ahem, hyperbole. Also, to further clarify, I never said you were dumb for predicting him a bust ... I said doing so because of these absurd games is dumb (if you watched them).