Ersan Ilyasova to sign with Jazz per Jordan Schultz

[One Brow]

Pop has shown he isn't afraid to play the young guys in minutes that matter, but he is the only Pop, so there is that.

By "young guys", you mean 1-2-year players of marginal NBA talent?

Terms like "reverence for vets" seem to always have more judgment than content.

 

[TheTrippleThreat]

I like it. It gives us another reliable bench piece. He can hit the three, rebound and play rotation team defense. He's not going to play alot. Im glad for it, were 1st in the league with what we had and this addition doesnt means with the chemistry we have. It adds another piece to put on the board if we need too. Smart pick up.

 

[infection]

I have a million thoughts on this and it won't be super organized so I'll just approach this from different points and different levels:

- I read on Twitter last night where someone said that when Zanik was an agent, that Ilyasova was a client. If that's true, it's interesting.

- Ilyasova's been on the market. We could have signed him much earlier, but we haven't.

- We have to maintain another guy on the roster, and they had to be signed by today, so instead of the 10-day dance, we got a guy who's a legitimate NBA player.

- The flip side of this is that had we felt we needed another legitimate player, we could have signed him sooner (see the same issue with RHJ).

- That said, we didn't need to waive Shaq. So under the argument that Ilyasova is just the most available/best guy to meet league roster-minimum criteria, you could also just say that we could have just kept Shaq, so to some degree you're thinking that he's more serviceable.

- If we were to have signed him during the summer, we'd have been happy to have him as a 9th man and assume he was taking Niang's spot.

- Niang has surprised this year.

- Ersan can rebound. The last three years, he's averaged 9.8 rebounds per 36. To give a comparison, the closest (rotation) player to that who isn't Gobert or Favors is Royce at 7.4. Niang is 5.8 and Bojan is 4.6.

- Rebounding is a problem, even though we're a good rebounding team. I've said this for a long time because we can get outmuscled when it matters, because we rely on our style of play to pick up rebounds, so that's easier to disrupt and becomes more problematic in the playoffs.

- That said, Ersan won't be playing down the stretch, so this plus is more limited, but it does allow us to throw a changeup every once in a while if needed.

- I think he'll get minutes. I don't think, initially, that it will be because of him filling a specific spot such as being 9th man, but because we'll enter an easier stretch and I think we'll load manage to a degree. I do think we need to load manage Favors, and even though people don't believe he'll play the 5, I'd like to see him used to load manage Favors and to also see what a real 5-out lineup looks like.

- Continuing from above, Ilyasova's known to shoot the three, so I think running a 5-out with him vs., say, Morgan, definitely changes things because Ersan is probably going to be defended tighter on the perimeter. Just a guess. I'd also be curious how much more he is defender on the perimeter vs. Niang by reputation alone. Open Niang threes are fine, too, I'm just curious.

- We do need more depth because you never know when you'll need it. I know there's an argument that we need to see what's there with our end of bench guys, but I'm not super optimistic. I don't know that I see Morgan being able to do anything more than spot duty. I'm somewhat more curious about Oni, but I don't know that I see Brantley being very rotational at this point.

- Ersan seems like a likable guy and good locker room presence. He doesn't seem like he's going to rock the boat if he's not playing. He's probably happy to be on a roster.

- We still have weaknesses that we haven't addressed, but I don't see this move having any bearing on that. If there's an available wing piece out there that we pass on, I think we pass on it because that's what we were going to do, and not pass on it because we think "ah, well, we've already got Ersan, so..."

- We're going to sign OPJ.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

By "young guys", you mean 1-2-year players of marginal NBA talent?

Terms like "reverence for vets" seem to always have more judgment than content.

Yes... saying a guy has deep respect for veterans is clearly me being judgey. Or it was just a more creative way to say Quin really likes vets... as most coaches do.

 

[infection]

Jerry didn't seem to have a problem playing unhyped rookies who would work hard, play hard, and play D. See Matthews, but also see Millsap, Collins, Bryon Russell, etc. If you were a rookie who had hype or promise, this worked against you for playing time. It was then that "developing the right way" was important.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

- We still have weaknesses that we haven't addressed, but I don't see this move having any bearing on that. If there's an available wing piece out there that we pass on, I think we pass on it because that's what we were going to do, and not pass on it because we think "ah, well, we've already got Ersan, so..."

Agree with most of that except this bullet point. Ersan kinda raises the bar on what type of other move we make. OP Jr. falls in our lap... sure we do that. If we have the opportunity to trade a second for Sterling Brown... well we did give Ersan a deal already... we are paying the tax... do we really need to do that deal?

Ersan might be better than the Sterling Brown option so it may not matter. OP jr. may not consider us anyway so it may not matter.

This move may open up something too... maybe there is a trade for Niang that helps get us the defensive wing and we want to make sure we have a shooting 4.

As it currently sits its just a little wonky... not crazy at all but just has me wondering what the plan is with Ersan.

I do also think this move feeds into my fear that we are too into redundancy. We have Bojan and a poor man's Bojan off the bench and now we have another version of that type of player (albeit with some added perks maybe with the charge taking and rebounding). We saw this with our centers too... we have a rim running, rim protecting center, we sign a high priced backup that is in the same mold (although he isn't protecting the rim now), and then we draft a player in the same mold.

In the playoffs you need versatility and we just don't have that. The 2013-14 Spurs had Boris Diaw as an extremely flexible offensive piece and Kawhi/Green who had defensive versatility. Its why Otto Porter would be such a great pickup if healthy and as you outlined... picking up Ersan might not prevent that type of no brainer move.

I think we have more need for versatility and this move is more about redundancy imo.

 

[infection]

Agree with most of that except this bullet point. Ersan kinda raises the bar on what type of other move we make. OP Jr. falls in our lap... sure we do that. If we have the opportunity to trade a second for Sterling Brown... well we did give Ersan a deal already... we are paying the tax... do we really need to do that deal?

Ersan might be better than the Sterling Brown option so it may not matter. OP jr. may not consider us anyway so it may not matter.

This move may open up something too... maybe there is a trade for Niang that helps get us the defensive wing and we want to make sure we have a shooting 4.

As it currently sits its just a little wonky... not crazy at all but just has me wondering what the plan is with Ersan.

I do also think this move feeds into my fear that we are too into redundancy. We have Bojan and a poor man's Bojan off the bench and now we have another version of that type of player (albeit with some added perks maybe with the charge taking and rebounding). We saw this with our centers too... we have a rim running, rim protecting center, we sign a high priced backup that is in the same mold (although he isn't protecting the rim now), and then we draft a player in the same mold.

In the playoffs you need versatility and we just don't have that. The 2013-14 Spurs had Boris Diaw as an extremely flexible offensive piece and Kawhi/Green who had defensive versatility. Its why Otto Porter would be such a great pickup if healthy and as you outlined... picking up Ersan might not prevent that type of no brainer move.

I think we have more need for versatility and this move is more about redundancy imo.

I think we're both framing this from different angles. You're framing it from the angle of what more we need and should do, and I'm framing it from the angle of the alternative probably being completely standing pat. In that case Ersan is a pretty solid move if the alternative really ended up being nothing.

 

[idiot]

- Continuing from above, Ilyasova's known to shoot the three, so I think running a 5-out with him vs., say, Morgan, definitely changes things because Ersan is probably going to be defended tighter on the perimeter. Just a guess. I'd also be curious how much more he is defender on the perimeter vs. Niang by reputation alone. Open Niang threes are fine, too, I'm just curious.

Good thoughts, even if I'm not 100% with you on all of them -- maybe 95%.

On the quoted one: I agree this may open things up in case we (perhaps need to) play Morgan more. With Ersan we'd be better equipped to rebound when Morgan is in. Ersan would make it so a Morgan-at-C lineup wouldn't be so terribly small. Both will shoot 3s, even if the percentages aren't as good as some other options. Both are smart and likely interchangeable defensively, even if throwing no fear into opponents' plans.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think we're both framing this from different angles. You're framing it from the angle of what more we need and should do, and I'm framing it from the angle of the alternative probably being completely standing pat. In that case Ersan is a pretty solid move if the alternative really ended up being nothing.

Sounds right.

 

[infection]

Sounds right.

The other angle is that I believe over the off-season they did the GM rotation every week. I think during the season they do it every month. JZ just came on duty to sign his former client, who's been available for the past couple months. You just better hope that by the time OPJ gets bought out that it's DL on duty.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The other angle is that I believe over the off-season they did the GM rotation every week. I think during the season they do it every month. JZ just came on duty to sign his former client, who's been available for the past couple months. You just better hope that by the time OPJ gets bought out that it's DL on duty.

I think I'm finally into the acceptance part of the process now... My opinion is they see this as a slight upgrade to Niang and thought it was the best they could do. They will keep the phone lines open.

Somewhere in the first half of the season I pivoted from thinking we were a good team that could win a round or two and now I think we have a legit shot at a title. But title contention would require some additional help and this particular move isn't the type of help I think we need. Just hope we don't get to the playoffs and end up a little short because we don't have the wing defenders needed. Playing it safe has rarely been the formula for success... this is a safe move.

Stars largely drive who wins a series but there are teams that would have fallen short if it wasn't for key role players. Hopefully we have the pieces we need.

 

[infection]

It's official.

 

[silesian]

Your point is good but Shandon took minutes from Chris Morris... not from Jeff.

Shandon also took Ostertag's minutes in game 6 of the 1997 finals as the Jazz played Karl at the 5 and went small ball with Shannon at the 3.

I agree that Hornacek's minutes were driven by his health as he was hobbled on one leg. Shannon did not take Horny's minutes.

 

[TheTrippleThreat]

Why would we trade anyone? Who would you let go and what do you expect to get back in return? We are 1st in the league right now. FIRST. Why would we start trading away pieces that are working to our advantage.

Let's say we trade George. How does Don and Rudy feel about that? What kind of relationships has the Mini-van developed? You trade one of your rotation pieces when your playing the best basketball this club has seen in twenty years and other eyebrows will raise.

I know playing armchair GM is fun, but when your leading the race you dont pit stop to change out parts.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Why would we trade anyone? Who would you let go and what do you expect to get back in return? We are 1st in the league right now. FIRST. Why would we start trading away pieces that are working to our advantage.

Let's say we trade George. How does Don and Rudy feel about that? What kind of relationships has the Mini-van developed? You trade one of your rotation pieces when your playing the best basketball this club has seen in twenty years and other eyebrows will raise.

I know playing armchair GM is fun, but when your leading the race you dont pit stop to change out parts.

This is true... but only if the regular season is the race that gets you a title. The playoffs are what win titles and while being in first provides some advantages for the playoffs, it does not put a banner in the rafters.

I'm not a big Draymond Green fan but when he said there are 82 game players and 16 game players he was correct. Niang might not be a 16 game player. Bojan may not be a guy who is as effective in the playoffs because of how he is targeted on defense... we've seen some cracks. To be a champion you can't be married to good... you have to push for great. When Toronto won the title they sacrificed Derozan for Kawhi... they also traded Jonas to get Gasol because Marc was a better playoff performer.

We are built with redundancy that is good for the regular season... in the playoffs you need to be able to change things up because teams will take stuff away from you... may not be in the first or second round, but the higher you go the more flexibility you will need.

 

[colton]

This. Jerry was notorious for not playing rookies.

False narrative in my opinion. That was only because the rookies the Jazz had with Sloan were typically so awful (because the Jazz were do good, draft position was always really low). When Sloan got a really good rookie like Deron Williams, he played him lots.

 

[colton]

- Ersan can rebound. The last three years, he's averaged 9.8 rebounds per 36. To give a comparison, the closest (rotation) player to that who isn't Gobert or Favors is Royce at 7.4. Niang is 5.8 and Bojan is 4.6.

Those numbers are not quite apples-to-apples comparisons, though. Ersan's numbers will likely go down in Utah, perhaps substantially, due to being on the floor with Gobert.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Those numbers are not quite apples-to-apples comparisons, though. Ersan's numbers will likely go down in Utah, perhaps substantially, due to being on the floor with Gobert.

They are also slightly inflated by playing with the Lopez twins who don't rebound themselves much but rather box out and allow others to get the boards.

I do think he is better than Niang/Bojan there by a fair amount.

 

[KqWIN]

The reason why it feels like coaches always overvalue vets it’s because fans overvalue scrubs/young players all the time. It’s easy to say that guy who you haven’t seen play is better than some vet who plays badly all the time when you’re not actually seeing them practice.

I’m not saying coaches are always right, but the majority of the time the reason why someone is planted on the bench is because they aren’t good enough. Moreover, if they are good enough, they will probably find their way on the court no matter who the coach.

I know that someone is going to toss in some Christian Wood esque outlier counter example out there...but I really think people get too caught up in these narratives.

 

[homeytennis]

The reason why it feels like coaches always overvalue vets it’s because fans overvalue scrubs/young players all the time. It’s easy to say that guy who you haven’t seen play is better than some vet who plays badly all the time when you’re not actually seeing them practice.

I’m not saying coaches are always right, but the majority of the time the reason why someone is planted on the bench is because they aren’t good enough. Moreover, if they are good enough, they will probably find their way on the court no matter who the coach.

I know that someone is going to toss in some Christian Wood esque outlier counter example out there...but I really think people get too caught up in these narratives.

It's more likely the scrubbies end up like Bolomboy, Ty Wallace or Marcus Paige.