Ines Sainz Controversy & female reporters in men's locker room

[sirkickyass]

Just watched this week's Mad Men. We haven't come as far as we like to think.

 

[sirkickyass]

A. You know that her employer is asking to dress as she does how? This is a huge assumption on your part.

Clearly you're not familiar with TV Azteca. They've sent reporters to games in wedding dresses, bikinis, and require female sportscasters to do publicity photoshoots in um ... unprofessional attire ... as promotional material.

It is quite clear what her qualifications for employment were given her employment history and the way the company utilizes her.

 

[sirkickyass]

How would you feel if a guy dressed up like a KKK-Nazi and went to BET awards and interviewed African Americans and was beat up/harrassed? Would it be wrong to assume the KKK guy had it coming?

How noble of those athletes to restrain themselves. It is totally the same thing as wearing Klan robes to a largely African American event.

Normally I'd tell you that you should be quiet because the adults are talking, but obviously I'm in the minority in not blaming the victim.

What a great board.

 

[TroutBum]

How noble of those athletes to restrain themselves. It is totally the same thing as wearing Klan robes to a largely African American event.

Normally I'd tell you that you should be quiet because the adults are talking, but obviously I'm in the minority in not blaming the victim.

What a great board.

Geeze, cry harder. Hack.

 

[Archie Moses]

How noble of those athletes to restrain themselves. It is totally the same thing as wearing Klan robes to a largely African American event.

Normally I'd tell you that you should be quiet because the adults are talking, but obviously I'm in the minority in not blaming the victim.

What a great board.

You never answered the question, but instead, you resorted to insulting me and try you're "I'm smarter than you neiner neiner neiner" bull ****. Dude, do you realize how big of a tool you are? I mean, seriously do you? How do people cope with you in real life?

Just so you know, it's vacuous to think she didn't have it coming. Should she have been harassed in a perfect and politically correct world? No. Did she set her self up for it? Yes. If you really, in a non-lawyer type way believe otherwise, you're lying to yourself. Looks like you passed the first test of being a good lawyer though. Never know when you're lying to yourself, never. And thus, by doing so, you'll never have a commonsense compass and or truth from lie inner self detector. Yeah, I just made that up, so suck on it, you.... you.... you adult you.

Stupid people put themselves in situations like this all the time. The football throwing was genius, especially with the newly released commercial.

 

[G-O-A-T]

Just so you know, it's vacuous to think she didn't have it coming. Should she have been harassed in a perfect and politically correct world? No. Did she set her self up for it? Yes. If you really, in a non-lawyer type way believe otherwise, you're lying to yourself...

Stupid people put themselves in situations like this all the time. The football throwing was genius, especially with the newly released commercial.

This.

In a strict legal sense, sure, the football team was wrong... but in a common sense world, she had it coming... she put herself into a situation where bad things could happen and they did. If she wants to complain about anyone, it should be her employer who sends her out in the skimpy outfits to tease these overgrown children we call professional athletes and their fans

The team should apologize and she should accept... and then just leave it at that. If the catcalls are too much for her she needs to find a new line of work, otherwise she needs to suck up the verbal abuse and be happy she is getting a paycheck to be pretty.

 

[moevillini]

i'm beginning to think that perhaps Jersey Shore is responsible for everything that is wrong with our society these days

i'm not sure how it happened...

 

[candrew]

This female reporter for ESPN pretty much encapsulates how I feel about this situation. The Jets are jerks and this chick is a fraud.

Now everyone put away their fake vaginas and lets enjoy some football.

https://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=hill/100914

The Jets, Ines Sainz and sharing blameEducation for everyone involved could be the best way to address this controversyEmail Print Comments207 By Jemele Hill
ESPN.com
I don't know Ines Sainz, but I've seen enough of her work to think that the New York Jets might not be the only ones responsible for the firestorm that has become almost as big a deal as their season-opening loss to the Baltimore Ravens on Monday night.

As the featured team in HBO's "Hard Knocks" series, the Jets already have been in the headlines for their mouthiness. But the controversy about their alleged behavior toward Sainz could be far more serious than their television trash-talking.

Sainz, a reporter for TV Azteca in Mexico, said she was "uncomfortable" about the way she was treated at Saturday's Jets practice, where she was seeking to interview franchise quarterback Mark Sanchez. Instead of an interview with Sanchez, Sainz said she was subjected to idiotic -- my word, not hers -- behavior by the Jets' players and coaches.

According to reports, Jets secondary coach Dennis Thurman launched passes in Sainz's direction so that the players could get close to her. And once Sainz was in the locker room, the players allegedly ogled her, and some used inappropriate language.

The experience prompted Sainz, a former Miss Spain and Miss Universe contestant, to tweet that she was "dying of embarrassment." On NBC's "Today" show on Tuesday, though, she downplayed some of her initial reaction.

"I must say that I don't hear anything that is in a sexual way," Sainz told "Today" host Meredith Vieira. "I'm not the one who say the charge or try to involve all of the team in this situation."

The NFL has launched an investigation, and Jets owner Woody Johnson personally called Sainz to apologize.

That, in itself, is tremendous progress. It's taken a long time for women to be taken seriously in sports media. It was 20 years ago this week that Lisa Olson, currently a sports columnist for AOL Fanhouse, was subjected to humiliating treatment by members of the New England Patriots in their locker room, an incident that many acknowledge as a turning point for female media members in their struggle to gain respect in the sports industry. At the time, many dismissed Olson's claims of harassment, and she received an avalanche of public scorn.

But at the risk of sounding insensitive to Sainz, I would never group her situation with the Jets with Olson's treatment by the Pats. I'm having a hard time feeling sympathetic for someone who at times carries herself in a manner that insults some women in this business.

At the Super Bowl XLIII media day, for example, Sainz went around touching players' biceps as part of what she called a "strongest arm" competition.

Did the Jets mistreat Sainz? The NFL is investigating.

At last season's Super Bowl between the Colts and Saints, Sainz allowed herself to be carried on the shoulders of a couple of Indianapolis players.

Then there's the matter of the attire she's worn on the job around professional football. A quick Google search turns up numerous images of Sainz standing on a football field in clothing that seems better suited for a nightclub.

"It's my style," Sainz told George Stephanopoulos on ABC's "Good Morning America." "It is my style for all my life."

In no way am I saying Sainz deserved to be disrespected because of what she wore or that she doesn't bring a hard-hitting, Barbara Walters-type approach to her job.

It isn't fair, but female sports journalists have to adhere to unspoken rules that our male counterparts never have to consider. Otherwise, the door is left open for comments such as the ones Washington Redskins running back Clinton Portis made when he was asked on a D.C. radio show about Sainz's situation.

"You know, somebody got to spark her interest, or she's going to want somebody. I don't know what kind of woman won't, if you get to go and look at 53 men's [bodies]," Portis said. "I know you're doing a job, but at the same time, the same way I'm going to cut my eye if I see somebody worth talking to, I'm sure they do the same thing."

Portis apologized later, but this is why I'm less inclined to support Sainz. I realize that Latin television might be risqué by U.S. standards and that there are different cultural rules in play here in terms of dress and approach. She works for a network that has a track record of putting its female talent in compromising situations with athletes. At Super Bowl XLII in 2008, another TV Azteca reporter named Ines Gomez Mont wore a wedding dress to media day and asked Tom Brady to marry her. In fact, that reporter kept referring to herself as "the real Mrs. Brady."

In fairness, there are always shenanigans at Super Bowl media day, and they've often involved male reporters.

But isn't it fair, too, to wonder whether Sainz's flirty, fluffy reporting style might blur the lines for the players? I have a hard time believing the Jets would treat USA Today columnist Christine Brennan, a pioneer for female sports journalists, the way they allegedly treated Sainz.

I was disappointed that Brennan and the Association for Women in Sports Media (AWSM) have rushed to support Sainz. Yes, their response brings attention to a serious issue, but sometimes the wrong person can undermine the right cause. I respect AWSM immensely and credit the organization for mentoring women like me and helping us understand how to navigate the male-dominated world of sports.

But is Sainz the best candidate for martyrdom?

"You can't say if it's wrong for one person but it's right for the others," said Joanne Gerstner, a current AWSM board member and past president. "It's an attitude. We want to show we're watching. We demand to have courtesy, respect and professionalism in the locker room."

As someone who has covered sports for more than a decade, I demand those things, too. Should the NFL's investigation of the Jets show that Sainz was mistreated, the players and the team should be publicly reprimanded and fined.

I'm also pleased that members of AWSM will meet with the Jets to discuss how the team can maintain an environment that isn't threatening to women. I just hope the organization realizes the Jets aren't the only ones who need to be educated.

Jemele Hill can be reached at jemeleespn@gmail.com.

 

[Gameface]

So from reading many posts here I now realize that men are not required to have self control in the face of temptation. If a woman invokes sexual feelings in a man it is her fault when the man crosses the line of socially acceptable behavior.

Just like if I leave my car unlocked it is my fault when someone steals my CDs out of my glove box.

 

[Archie Moses]

Just like if I leave my car unlocked it is my fault when someone steals my CDs out of my glove box.

In a perfect world no one would steal. Unfortunately we don't live in a world like that. If you had something in your car that was valuable to you and you left your car unlocked and someone stole it from you, you have no one to blame but yourself imo. Yeah, the crook should have never stolen from you, but common sense says it wouldn't have happened had you locked your door or you shouldn't have left something like that in your car. That's the way I look at it.

 

[NAOS]

nah, Kicky, you have supporters on this issue. I just realized at the early stage of this wave that I didn't have energy for this fight.

I'll go back to what I said earlier: too much paradox in this situation for a reasonable discussion in a forum such as this. Kicky is technically/legally correct, but I don't get the sense that he is capturing the experience of the situation that well -- and how could we?!?! Beantown is (...gulp...) also putting his finger on a hard to ignore point: why the hell should we expect anything different to have happened? But, he also shoots far beyond the realm of experience with this gloss, and, even after my vocal prediction, has occupied the position of "double standards are the way the world works."

The bottom line is that we know far too little about the material/sub-expressive components of this event to make any convincing point, and this thread has been spinning off like we're talking on THE VIEW's fan forum.

 

[moevillini]

So from reading many posts here I now realize that men are not required to have self control in the face of temptation. If a woman invokes sexual feelings in a man it is her fault when the man crosses the line of socially acceptable behavior.

Just like if I leave my car unlocked it is my fault when someone steals my CDs out of my glove box.

in general, I think there's a difference between saying someone is "at fault" versus saying they "share some responsibility"

And who knows, you could've locked your car and set an alarm and your cd's may still have been stolen. And Ines could've dressed in a nun's habit and still have been harassed. Who knows? But then again, why take a chance?

 

[Archie Moses]

in general, I think there's a difference between saying someone is "at fault" versus saying they "share some responsibility"

And who knows, you could've locked your car and set an alarm and your cd's may still have been stolen. And Ines could've dressed in a nun's habit and still have been harassed. Who knows? But then again, why take a chance?

This.

+2... Err.. I already gave you green rep a little ago so I can't now, but remind me later, and I'll hit you up.

 

[Gameface]

in general, I think there's a difference between saying someone is "at fault" versus saying they "share some responsibility"

And who knows, you could've locked your car and set an alarm and your cd's may still have been stolen. And Ines could've dressed in a nun's habit and still have been harassed. Who knows? But then again, why take a chance?

Yeah, I agree with you, but people here are pointing at her part in this as a way of absolving the players from any responsibility to act respectfully.

I also wonder how bad the behavior was in the first place. I haven't read anything that really describes what the players did specifically so it's hard to say if they were really over the line or not. There are a lot of situations where it's okay to make a proposition to a woman if she welcomes it, but could get you fired if she doesn't. Only you can't usually tell until you actually act. The funniest part is if the woman is interested and wondering why you're being such a wuss about it and not approaching her. Well, funny to me because I'm married and don't hit on women in the workplace.

 

[Archie Moses]

Yeah, I agree with you, but people here are pointing at her part in this as a way of absolving the players from any responsibility to act respectfully.

I also wonder how bad the behavior was in the first place. I haven't read anything that really describes what the players did specifically so it's hard to say if they were really over the line or not. There are a lot of situations where it's okay to make a proposition to a woman if she welcomes it, but could get you fired if she doesn't. Only you can't usually tell until you actually act. The funniest part is if the woman is interested and wondering why you're being such a wuss about it and not approaching her. Well, funny to me because I'm married and don't hit on women in the workplace.

They threw footballs close to her so they could pick them up and check her out. Then they said "stuff" to her in the locker room, more than likely sexual innuendo.

People shouldn't be harassed or disrespected, but I can see how it's hard for some people to "respect" people doing their job when they're dressed like an idiot/skank/unprofessional/doesn't meet with norms of society - if they are seriously demanding for those things. She's a joke of a journalist from what I understand and she's making it harder for woman to be taking seriously in sports. If she doesn't want to get hit on by football players and be taken more seriously in a respectful manner, there's an obvious solution. Don't call attention to your body and don't dress casual like you're going out dancing or in flirty outfit.

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

I think the players should have access to the reporters locker rooms and we should get topless interviews with side line hotties.

 

[Scat]

Yeah, I agree with you, but people here are pointing at her part in this as a way of absolving the players from any responsibility to act respectfully.

I don't think I've seen anyone absolve the players' of their behaviour. I know that I have stated several times that they were acting like pigs and being boorish.

I also wonder how bad the behavior was in the first place. I haven't read anything that really describes what the players did specifically so it's hard to say if they were really over the line or not. There are a lot of situations where it's okay to make a proposition to a woman if she welcomes it, but could get you fired if she doesn't. Only you can't usually tell until you actually act. The funniest part is if the woman is interested and wondering why you're being such a wuss about it and not approaching her. Well, funny to me because I'm married and don't hit on women in the workplace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVuAGFcGKY

In any case, the ESPN writer has echoed my position exactly albeit more eloquently.

 

[Archie Moses]

Ines Sainz, don't promote yourself as "the hottest sports reporter in Mexico" and then be surprised by the reaction...


That is all.

 

[default]

A. You know that her employer is asking to dress as she does how? This is a huge assumption on your part.

B. I never said she is "asking for it" or that she is giving her consent to be sexually harassed. I did say that her clothing exacerbates the situation. Dressing more professionally may help defuse the situation and reduce the risk of being harassed. Look, she is dressing provoctively and entering a room full of half dressed men jacked up on testosterone and adrenaline having just vanquished their foe. Its akin to slathering lamb fat all over your body and walking into a lion den.

You guys arguing that her clothing has no bearing on how she is treated are living in a make-believe world. In a perfect world how she is treated should have no connection to what she wears and sexual harassment would never happen.



I would never wear leather underwear, let alone in public, so it is all good.

And before you go all ape **** on me, it's a joke!

Gee thanks. I can never UN-SEE that image. Trust me, I'm trying.

 

[Archie Moses]

Seems like some people are lacking with their cognitive complexity. Maybe they're just cognitively immature.