Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

[stitches]

So let me get this straight. The Knicks had declared RJ Barrett as "untouchable" from the very beginning of the negotiations. The reports have been that the Jazz don't want RJ Barrett and that the Knicks want to keep him. So what exactly does this change? Nothing. IF the previous reports were true.

IF they were not, then Barrett doesn't seem to have been so untouchable since the newest report is that Rose had put a deadline of Monday to trade him or to re-sign him to this 120M contract. Either way, the Knicks seem to value him very highly and IF the Jazz actually wanted Barrett, he would have come at a cost of not getting at least 2-3 1st round picks. This BTW has been my contention ever since the "untouchable" reports came about - if he really was untouchable, Rose should just sign him and take him off the table. Well... he kind of did, but not before reportedly being really close to trading him, so don't know what that means.

Now if trade talks have broken down, then this might lead us to believe Ainge actually DID WANT RJ Barrett. But if he didn't then this signing shouldn't affect much of anything in the Donovan Mitchell negotiations.

I personally think key component to our tanking efforts is not trading Mitchell specifically, but trading all the vets that can help us win games. Why? Because Mitchell is the player that can return us premier assets back. Our other vets very likely can't. So there isn't much opportunity cost to trading the vets now, while there might be some if we trade Mitchell now for a sub-par offer. IMO we should trade everybody who can return any value now and can contribute to winning. Conley, Bojan, Beasley, Clarkson... trade them all. And if you can get one or both of the Lakers picks, do it. Enter the season with Mitchell and trash roster around him. Get one of the premier picks in the draft... reevaluate next year. See if there is better market for Mitchell next summer. Or if the Knicks become more desperate in February.

 

[stitches]

I guess from my perspective it sucks no matter either because we won’t see a Jazz game where it’s important for us to win in many years. I don’t really care about trade rumors when the team is going to be irrelevant for many years.

It’s definitely most boring if the Jazz don’t do anything…. But there is so much boring ahead. Years and years of it. If we were ok with the rebuild, we should be ok with uncomfortable, boring, and/or whatever situation this Mitchell standoff is. There’s going to be many of these moments ahead and it’s going to take patience.

For a lot of these tanking and crappy teams the only relevancy they have is trade rumors. That’s the nature of a tanking team.

I'm good watching a team that has clear path set. There is a certain charm in the tanking years too - you get to root for young players and follow their development into stars(or busts?). Now this specific year we probably won't have many young players to be excited about but still..

But I agree with you - for people who want us to tank... I have no idea why the rush to trade Mitchell. IMO as long as the path is set, with or without Mitchell for a year, we can walk that path. My biggest worry is that we choose the middle road. I.e. we don't find good deal for Mitchell, so instead of committing to the rebuild we keep the vets and try to compete for play in spots. This would be horrible IMO.

 

[Shad]

Imagine being a Knicks fan and not wanting to trade Grimes for Donovan

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Smart move by the Knicks imo. No one should give up that much stuff for a 6'1 scoring guard.

Leon Rose isn't going to get bullied. Now he has to hope the team he formed can actually make the play in.

If they don't, he might end up getting bullied next off season, but there isn't much value in getting him now vs a year from now

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The interesting thing now is if Utah moves forward with trades for other vets to make the team worse or if they move forward with a play in competing team

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Imagine being a Knicks fan and not wanting to trade Grimes for Donovan

If I was a Knicks fan I'd be elated right now personally.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

The interesting thing now is if Utah moves forward with trades for other vets to make the team worse or if they move forward with a play in competing team

Exactly, i will be pretty happy to see Don with a jazz jersey. The others vets can only go if we got a good offer ( Picks). If not, let's compete and if Don is good, his value will be even better.

 

[Agent#00]

Imagine ASG in Utah with no Rudy, ingles, Quin, Royce and DM

And that ugly new jersey

 

[SoberasHotRod]

- I was starting to believe/hope that a deal was mostly in place, but it appears that isn't the case.
- I'm guessing Ainge doesn't take kindly to Rose's power move, so getting a deal done before camp seems unlikely.
- This might be an almost Ainge moment. The rumored deal that he turned down was pretty good, although since it came from the Knicks side, it might not be trustworthy. He still probably gets the equivalent deal or better, but it would have been nice to have the deal done before training camp. I also saw the value of bringing in Barrett.

 

[Dread]

Poison Pill is only for one year, after that, back to normal, Knicks will still have a bunch of picks to give up, and we'll still be in the market. The Tank/rebuild model is the long game not instant gratification. Donovan will put up great numbers on a subpar team. He'll only be worth more.

Or if the Jazz luck holds, he'll pull a Grant Hill and that will be that.

 

[Shocker00]

Just a quick question guys. With the Knicks now already over a 100m in contracts in 25/26 when Mitchell can opt out. Does this actually give the Jazz more leverage if the Knicks want Mitchell? They might not be able to sign him in 25/26 therefore only being able to trade for him. I do realize that’s a few years away but it definitely looking less likely they will be able to sign him as a free agent. Therefore, it would make more sense to trade for him sooner than later. The Knicks can now overpay making it not look so bad. If the Knicks get off to a bad start in the season, I can see a lot of criticism coming their way. It might create a lot of pressure into getting a deal done.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I guess from my perspective it sucks no matter either because we won’t see a Jazz game where it’s important for us to win in many years. I don’t really care about trade rumors when the team is going to be irrelevant for many years.

It’s definitely most boring if the Jazz don’t do anything…. But there is so much boring ahead. Years and years of it. If we were ok with the rebuild, we should be ok with uncomfortable, boring, and/or whatever situation this Mitchell standoff is. There’s going to be many of these moments ahead and it’s going to take patience.

For a lot of these tanking and crappy teams the only relevancy they have is trade rumors. That’s the nature of a tanking team.

Trade rumors are fine… it’s that we are stuck in the middle with the big trade that is the issue. I don’t watch for relevance per se. Wins and losses may not matter but it’s still fun to watch guys grow and become familiar with new players. Being stuck and somewhat aimless with Donovan would be so weird. I doubt they tear it down to studs with Don on the roster. They should but it’s also kinda ****** to ask him to smile through that. Make all the guys deal with rumors all season… vibes were already garbage.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Just a quick question guys. With the Knicks now already over a 100m in contracts in 25/26 when Mitchell can opt out. Does this actually give the Jazz more leverage if the Knicks want Mitchell? They might not be able to sign him in 25/26 therefore only being able to trade for him. I do realize that’s a few years away but it definitely looking less likely they will be able to sign him as a free agent. Therefore, it would make more sense to trade for him sooner than later. The Knicks can now overpay making it not look so bad. If the Knicks get off to a bad start in the season, I can see a lot of criticism coming their way. It might create a lot of pressure into getting a deal done.

Nah… cap will jump the next few years and they could always clear a contract. I still think we move Donovan before regular season games start… maybe not the Knicks though as Rose and Ainge seem to be too prideful to meet in the middle.

 

[TheStormofWar]

- I was starting to believe/hope that a deal was mostly in place, but it appears that isn't the case.
- I'm guessing Ainge doesn't take kindly to Rose's power move, so getting a deal done before camp seems unlikely.
- This might be an almost Ainge moment. The rumored deal that he turned down was pretty good, although since it came from the Knicks side, it might not be trustworthy. He still probably gets the equivalent deal or better, but it would have been nice to have the deal done before training camp. I also saw the value of bringing in Barrett.

I think something to note on this is the possibility that a framework does exist to not involve RJ. I'm guessing the "Utah wanted RJ" was a Leon leak.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I think something to note on this is the possibility that a framework does exist to not involve RJ. I'm guessing the "Utah wanted RJ" was a Leon leak.

The reports so far don't support this. The reports are pretty clear this was a power move by Rose.

 

[Hekate]

Trade rumors are fine… it’s that we are stuck in the middle with the big trade that is the issue. I don’t watch for relevance per se. Wins and losses may not matter but it’s still fun to watch guys grow and become familiar with new players. Being stuck and somewhat aimless with Donovan would be so weird. I doubt they tear it down to studs with Don on the roster. They should but it’s also kinda ****** to ask him to smile through that. Make all the guys deal with rumors all season… vibes were already garbage.

He doesn't need to smile necessarily.

 

[JazzJunkie]

I am team “we don’t want RJ.” I think we want a war chest of picks and young players.

I am interested in seeing if we start selling off the older players now that Mitchell talks are going on pause for a while. The cats out of the bag now on the tank, and we can tank now with Don. Best to cash in Bogey, Beasley, Clarkson, and Conley for whatever assets we can get.

With RJ being off the table, this is going to be a “multiple young players coming back to Utah” deal if it happens, and we’ll need the roster spots too.

Wouldn't they be players going out in any 3 team trade involving Don though?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He doesn't need to smile necessarily.

Yeah but he’s playing nice right now. He ends up going Harden or pulling a Vince Carter and it gets even more uncomfortable… If all they can get is 3 unprotected picks, 2 protected picks, and some combo of IQ/Toppin/Grimes then it’s time to move forward.

Keeping Donovan into the season doesn’t necessarily mean we will get more for him the following year. Obviously there is injury risk (let’s say 5% chance he has a season ending injury), but he could get slightly exposed without spacing and Rudy screens/gravity. The market may not yield anything more than what we are offered even if he is good.

Danny Ainge may not want to settle for 80-90% of his insane asking price but he needs to ask himself this question… what is 100% of nothing? Because that is what he risks (even if it’s small) by taking this into the season.

 

[DasJazz]

I'm a lot less interested in the Knicks picks if we help them offload Randle. Them choking on that contract is the secret sauce.

Nailed it.

 

[David Stern]

The reports so far don't support this. The reports are pretty clear this was a power move by Rose.

There’s bias in these reports, I don’t think a biased report clearly shows anything