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Police Power and Racial Tensions in Ferguson, Missouri

Honest question One Brow.

How would you feel about changing the group that investigates police shootings? Perhaps groups of 4-5 people. Have 1-2 CSI guys (not with the PD, or 1 PD and 1 non PD), a homicide detective (PD affiliated), a laywer/judge (non PD) and maybe a civil rights advocate. Mix the group up along race, gender, political leanings and religion(including agnostics and athiests) lines.

Do you fell that it inspire greater confidence in the initial system? Minorities particularly?

I think that would depend on how the positions are filled. Locally, if Mayor Slay is making these appointments, then the residents of northern St. Louis might not trust them any more than the police force (it depends greatly on how many of the choices appear to be patronage). However, I think civilian review boards are a good idea, generally, if handled correctly. If the public perception is that there is check on abuses of power by the police, that will help calm tensions.
 
I think that would depend on how the positions are filled. Locally, if Mayor Slay is making these appointments, then the residents of northern St. Louis might not trust them any more than the police force (it depends greatly on how many of the choices appear to be patronage). However, I think civilian review boards are a good idea, generally, if handled correctly. If the public perception is that there is check on abuses of power by the police, that will help calm tensions.

Well I was thinking more nationally with this idea. Have all police shootings reviewed this way. They could be appointed by the governor from state to state. I'm sure that the state legislatures, staffs, PDs and mayors would submitted candidates. I would not want it "civilian" as in it is compeltely state and police removed. I would want an equal mix of authority and civilian. That would ensure a fairer outcome imo. Also no investigator should be from the department if the shooter and no one on the review board should have any connetion to anyone involved.

Also the state highway patrol has taken over the Ferguson PD dutties and are handling it in a much more appropriate way imo.
 
Incorrect, the looting, arson and rioting was there from the beginning.

The police used APCs, assault rifles and concussion grenades after a couple days.

K9 units, riot shields, rubber bullets and tear gas were the initial methods used. They were there from the start as was the looting and rioting.

https://news.yahoo.com/vandalism-looting-vigil-missouri-man-043816425.html

It's a little ways down in the article, but the first protests were at police headquarters, and were peaceable. Had the police taken the opportunity to mix in with the protesters and interact with them, as opposed to standing like an opposing force, the direction of the protests could have been altered. Later, the candlelight vigil turned violent.

I'm not blaming the individual police officers here. I'm sure all of them were following their training and doing their best. We need to change how police interact with citizens in these situations.
 
https://news.yahoo.com/vandalism-looting-vigil-missouri-man-043816425.html

It's a little ways down in the article, but the first protests were at police headquarters, and were peaceable. Had the police taken the opportunity to mix in with the protesters and interact with them, as opposed to standing like an opposing force, the direction of the protests could have been altered. Later, the candlelight vigil turned violent.

I'm not blaming the individual police officers here. I'm sure all of them were following their training and doing their best. We need to change how police interact with citizens in these situations.

I am not defending the excessively heavy handed response of the Ferguson PD. I am only saying that it is not as you wish to portray it. I am also correcting misinformation. Such as your statement that they were using assault rifles and APCs from the start.

From the article you yourself just linked: "Earlier Sunday, a few hundred protesters gathered outside Ferguson Police headquarters. Some marched into an adjacent police building chanting "Don't shoot me" while holding their hands in the air. Officers stood at the top of a staircase, but didn't use force; the crowd eventually left. A similar protest that attracted about 250 people was held Monday morning"

Also from that article: "Nearly three dozen people were arrested after tensions around the case following a candlelight vigil Sunday night, as crowds looted and burned stores, vandalized vehicles and taunted officers who tried to block access to parts of the city"

This shows that police began to arrest people when the protests were no longer peaceful.

Did you even read this article? It backs up everything I have said and nothing you have.

Sure the cops could have handled it better, especially as things dragged on, but initially the cops just let the protestors have their say and go on their way. They didn't use force until the protests turned violent according to this article. They also continually escalated that force as time went by. They way they used that escalating that force, and they way they escalated it so dramatically, is where they went horribly wrong.
 
I am not defending the excessively heavy handed response of the Ferguson PD. I am only saying that it is not as you wish to portray it. I am also correcting misinformation. Such as your statement that they were using assault rifles and APCs from the start.

I didn't make that statement anywhere. I really get weary of reading that I have said this or that, when I have not made such statements.

I did make a statement that the existence of riots on Sunday did not justify the police tactics on Monday, and that the tactics on Monday exacerbated the response from protesters on Tuesday.
 
I didn't make that statement anywhere. I really get weary of reading that I have said this or that, when I have not made such statements.

I did make a statement that the existence of riots on Sunday did not justify the police tactics on Monday, and that the tactics on Monday exacerbated the response from protesters on Tuesday.

Went back to prove you wrong, as it was said, and it is I who was wrong. The comment that I was thinking of was made by Highlandhomie and not you.

My apologies.
 
Sounds like Ferguson police department needs a full reboot.
 
We do not need to raise the revenue, it is already there. There were threads on that in GD a year or two ago I believe. First place I'd start is reviewing, and cutting, all foreign aid and all research projects. Even military ones.

Aren't state and local police force paid for with state and local revenues (with possibly some federal grants thrown in the mix?) I doubt, for example, that Sandy Utah is spending too much on aid to Pakistan.
 
Aren't state and local police force paid for with state and local revenues (with possibly some federal grants thrown in the mix?) I doubt, for example, that Sandy Utah is spending too much on aid to Pakistan.

This was in a national sense. But there are plenty of areas that money is wasted on. The point was that enough money the problem is how it is used.
 
This was in a national sense. But there are plenty of areas that money is wasted on. The point was that enough money the problem is how it is used.

Actually, I think part of the problem is also that these local law enforcement bodies are getting TOO much from the federal government in terms of military firepower. Yet another horribly dysfunctional downstream result of the 'war on terror,' which is now being used an excuse to engage in wars of choice, violate civil rights, violate privacy rights, torture, circumvent habeus corpus, and now to militarize local law enforcement.

More broadly it reflects our nation's punishment and incarceration fetish, again abetted at the margin by our dark and increasingly irrational fear of terrorists that go bump in the night.
 
Actually, I think part of the problem is also that these local law enforcement bodies are getting TOO much from the federal government in terms of military firepower. Yet another horribly dysfunctional downstream result of the 'war on terror,' which is now being used an excuse to engage in wars of choice, violate civil rights, violate privacy rights, torture, circumvent habeus corpus, and now to militarize local law enforcement.

More broadly it reflects our nation's punishment and incarceration fetish, again abetted at the margin by our dark and increasingly irrational fear of terrorists that go bump in the night.

There are some recent articles about some in DC now pushing to change what is handed down to local police forces. Instead of just giving it away why doesn't the military sell it?

Even if it is for a fraction of what you paid for it that is still better than just ditching it or giving it away.
 
There are some recent articles about some in DC now pushing to change what is handed down to local police forces. Instead of just giving it away why doesn't the military sell it?

Even if it is for a fraction of what you paid for it that is still better than just ditching it or giving it away.

I'd rather have the military ditch its surplus tanks, for example, than gifting them to local law enforcement. These bozos can't be trusted with guns, let alone weapons of mass destruction. The acquisition of power comes along (whether intended) with an imperative to use it.
 
Apples to oranges alert

Not really. If you actually read what I wrote, you'd see that. Ain't nobody got time fo' dat, I know, but come on.

Washington D.C. and SLC are not comparable. If number of officers determines public safety why don't you move your family to D.C.?

'Murica: Don't like it? Leave. At this point it's not really worth responding to you, but I have this weird thing about blind stupidity; I can't stand it.

I don't think 1 in every 500 SLC residents needs policing. I would say that 99% need no policing at all. At least 99 out of 100 people that live in my neighborhood do not require a police force to be good citizens and good neighbors.

Because "policing" people is all that cops do, right? I mean, they certainly aren't responding to auto accidents, crimes in progress, security for public events, etc. -- they are all parked in shady spots, speed trapping people and profiling would-be criminals like fishonjazz. Let's just hope that some ******* doesn't rear end your car, and then drive away, because the chances are good that one of the other 499 people that that particular officer is dedicated to has already called him/her and the cop is too busy to chase the *******. Heaven forbid it's a serious crime, right?

If it was my call I would push for less beat cops and more detectives. I want people that can follow and collect evidence in my police force not people justifying their jobs by writing as many tickets as they can and harassing people.

Again, this isn't NCIS, you ****ing clod. Do you think they assign every crime over to "detectives"? Beat cops are the ground force of ALL detectives and usually do the majority of the case work. On the flip side, "detectives" write their fair share of citations and tickets. If you did anything other than piss and moan behind your computer, you'd know this.

Actually, I think part of the problem is also that these local law enforcement bodies are getting TOO much from the federal government in terms of military firepower. Yet another horribly dysfunctional downstream result of the 'war on terror,' which is now being used an excuse to engage in wars of choice, violate civil rights, violate privacy rights, torture, circumvent habeus corpus, and now to militarize local law enforcement.

When was the last time you witnessed some of this "militarized" law enforcement? Serious question. Have you ever seen a local cop pull out a military grade weapon or vehicle to enforce a law? "But, but, Trout, don't you watch teh newz!?"

STFU

There are 317,000,000 people in this country, and some of them are real bad people who do real bad things. I would prefer that my local cops have an armored vehicle, body armor, and a rifle that can shoot through a wall so that they can catch the real bad guys before they hurt anyone else. Of the millions of arrests that happen in this country, the media chooses to highlight the stories that morons like you soak up and talk about. In 2012 there were an estimated 12.2 million arrests made in the USA -- let's say that one super, over-reacted, military style arrest was made every day. (Which is a gross overestimation) That would mean that 0.00002% of all arrests were over the top military style. What if there were 10 per day? You're still under three one hundredths of a percent. Let's get crazy and say that 1,000 arrests are made every day that are over the top, where cops are using AK47's and riot gear. That would equal a whopping 0.02% of all arrests made for the year. Even if the media reported all of them, instead of the juicy ones that cause idiotic uproar, you're still talking about 0.02%. Forgive me for not getting my magic underwear in a twist over a perceived threat that isn't really there at all.

More broadly it reflects our nation's punishment and incarceration fetish, again abetted at the margin by our dark and increasingly irrational fear of terrorists that go bump in the night.

Gee, I wonder how people got all scared and worried about these so called threats? The same way you did regarding the militarization of our police forces.

I'd rather have the military ditch its surplus tanks, for example, than gifting them to local law enforcement.

Care to show me a police force in the USA that has tanks? Secondly, you can't have it both ways; imagine the uproar and heads that would roll if the US military just junked billions of dollars of surplus gear.

These bozos can't be trusted with guns, let alone weapons of mass destruction. The acquisition of power comes along (whether intended) with an imperative to use it.

These bozos, huh? The same bozos that you trust to keep you and your family safe, and the first person you call in an emergency? You're pretty quick to judge these people; have you ever met one? Do you know who the chief or commander is in your city? Ever spent more than thirty seconds talking to a cop, other than when you're being pulled over?

But seriously, F THE POLICE! LOL. EYE.
 
Actually, I think part of the problem is also that these local law enforcement bodies are getting TOO much from the federal government in terms of military firepower. Yet another horribly dysfunctional downstream result of the 'war on terror,' which is now being used an excuse to engage in wars of choice, violate civil rights, violate privacy rights, torture, circumvent habeus corpus, and now to militarize local law enforcement.

More broadly it reflects our nation's punishment and incarceration fetish, again abetted at the margin by our dark and increasingly irrational fear of terrorists that go bump in the night.

I like safe modern police state where Can go out back to give a piss and do not worry some cattle thieves will sneak into front door to rape my puppy dog.


You Americans, you do not know it is like living in dangerous country no more. Your army clean up savages your marshals take care wilderness banditos your FBI clean up the mafia your TSA keep airport safe. Go try living in Republic of Chechnya with no police state. Russia has 84 mrders per day, so much violence especially sexual force onto women.

You do not know how good we have it here. You want worry everyday your five years old daughter might get kidnapped for sex trade because you don't like the kinds of bullet in cops gun? Bad trade my friend. Bad trade.
 
Trout, come fish with me in Redding CA. Bass fishing capital of the west tbh


£¥£

Dude, my wife learned quick that I'm not about to bait her hook or unhook her fish for her. That pretty much excludes me ever fishing with you I'm afraid.
 
Dude, my wife learned quick that I'm not about to bait her hook or unhook her fish for her. That pretty much excludes me ever fishing with you I'm afraid.

You cereal bro?

That'd be like me taking you golfing but refusing to put your tee in the ground for you, fix your divots, and wash your clubs.

You lame bro.
 
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