Post Your Jazz Rotation

[Handlogten's Heros]

Im not saying everyone is misplacing Lauri. You certainly arent one of them.

As you said, shooting and defense are the key traits we need from the 3rd FC guy. Collins can offer that and came on a discount, albeit the opportunity cost is obvious.

You know my preference was OG, but the difference in cost makes Collins a better value pick. DFS also would have been better but again much more expensive.

Agree with a lot here. The trade cost was low... the cap costs and opportunity costs are where I have issue. And I wouldn't have that issue if we had a stretch 5 that was our starter... but the fit is gonna be clunky with one of our two pillars if the shot doesn't come back around.

I agree OG and DFS would be higher cost and I think OG has gotten overrated and DFS might be better in a different situation. I just think if you are asking Collins to be a 3 and D wing you will get a lot of what Atlanta got... at least in those minutes he isn't a roll man. Would you get more value in a 3 and D guy if it was like Jalen McDaniels (the lesser McDaniels who signed in Toronto) without the hassle of having to rehab value? and at a lower one year cost. Say you did a 1+1 (team option) at like 9M a year? Worst case its salary matching to pair with THT/KO/etc. for a big trade. McDaniels is a worse player but in that roll is he worse?

I think Bruce Brown would have been better all around and I imagine we could have gotten in on that situation if we wanted.

I also think if you wait you can squeeze Atlanta a bit more but maybe someone was after Collins... if we knew that then we would know at least one trade partner that may be out there (they didn't outbid us though).

I'll wait to see it on the court before I crush it or decide to get on board... its just a little puzzling.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It's not a question of being a risky trade. It's a question of being an opportunity cost trade.

Oh no, we missed out on the chance of giving Reaves a contract the Lakers would match.

It was the best low risk move the Jazz could have made. They need another bigger contract on the books and they can easily improve his value for what they paid for him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Im not saying everyone is misplacing Lauri. You certainly arent one of them.

As you said, shooting and defense are the key traits we need from the 3rd FC guy. Collins can offer that and came on a discount, albeit the opportunity cost is obvious.

You know my preference was OG, but the difference in cost makes Collins a better value pick. DFS also would have been better but again much more expensive.

I just want Collins in the best position for him to succeed. I dont think that's next starting next to Walker Kessler, unless his jumper has returned to what it was and taken another step forward.

Collins makes a lot of sense paired next to Olynyk. Kelly can get Collins the ball where he needs it and Kelly can guard the opposing center and let Collins be more a weakside rim protector and volume rebounder.

Of course you can do quick sub stuff, which might be the best call. You get the value of Collins being a "starter" but you control the rotations where he is next to KO more than he is to WK.

 

[infection]

Oh no, we missed out on the chance of giving Reaves a contract the Lakers would match.

You’d have a good point if opportunity cost were simply a static moment in time.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I just want Collins in the best position for him to succeed. I dont think that's next starting next to Walker Kessler, unless his jumper has returned to what it was and taken another step forward.

Collins makes a lot of sense paired next to Olynyk. Kelly can get Collins the ball where he needs it and Kelly can guard the opposing center and let Collins be more a weakside rim protector and volume rebounder.

Of course you can do quick sub stuff, which might be the best call. You get the value of Collins being a "starter" but you control the rotations where he is next to KO more than he is to WK.

I agree that Collins and KO would work well together. It just doesn't seem like KO is going to be with the team for too long. Maybe I'm wrong about that though.

 

[HermanG]

Agree with a lot here. The trade cost was low... the cap costs and opportunity costs are where I have issue. And I wouldn't have that issue if we had a stretch 5 that was our starter... but the fit is gonna be clunky with one of our two pillars if the shot doesn't come back around.

I agree OG and DFS would be higher cost and I think OG has gotten overrated and DFS might be better in a different situation. I just think if you are asking Collins to be a 3 and D wing you will get a lot of what Atlanta got... at least in those minutes he isn't a roll man. Would you get more value in a 3 and D guy if it was like Jalen McDaniels (the lesser McDaniels who signed in Toronto) without the hassle of having to rehab value? and at a lower one year cost. Say you did a 1+1 (team option) at like 9M a year? Worst case its salary matching to pair with THT/KO/etc. for a big trade. McDaniels is a worse player but in that roll is he worse?

I think Bruce Brown would have been better all around and I imagine we could have gotten in on that situation if we wanted.

I also think if you wait you can squeeze Atlanta a bit more but maybe someone was after Collins... if we knew that then we would know at least one trade partner that may be out there (they didn't outbid us though).

I'll wait to see it on the court before I crush it or decide to get on board... its just a little puzzling.

I think Collins being as athletic as he is and being able to get above the rim makes him a more versatile threat than some give him credit for. Playing an active and mobile off ball role on offense will highlight those traits now that he is not a statue in a guard iso heavy slow paced halfcourt offense.

I think he will be effective in transition, rim running, backdoor cuts and PnR as well as the obvious spacing and shooting (if stars align). As Lauri shoots a lot from 3 he will also collect offensive boards and get putbacks, as he is a great rebounder.

Obviously all hinges on his shooting getting back to above average, but if that happens I think he will surprise many in how well he fits in Hardys system offensively and also with Lauri.

 

[HermanG]

I just want Collins in the best position for him to succeed. I dont think that's next starting next to Walker Kessler, unless his jumper has returned to what it was and taken another step forward.

Collins makes a lot of sense paired next to Olynyk. Kelly can get Collins the ball where he needs it and Kelly can guard the opposing center and let Collins be more a weakside rim protector and volume rebounder.

Of course you can do quick sub stuff, which might be the best call. You get the value of Collins being a "starter" but you control the rotations where he is next to KO more than he is to WK.

I think the problem in analyzing Kessler and Collins pairing is that Kessler had such a short leash offensively that we dont really have enough info.

If Kessler is Zubac, then Collins is likely not a good fit. If Kessler is Brook Lopez, then he is. Or who is to say that Kessler cannot be a distributor like KO to some degree?

Point is, to analyze their fit we need to know who Kessler is offensively.

 

[sip]

I think the problem in analyzing Kessler and Collins pairing is that Kessler had such a short leash offensively that we dont really have enough info.

If Kessler is Zubac, then Collins is likely not a good fit. If Kessler is Brook Lopez, then he is. Or who is to say that Kessler cannot be a distributor like KO to some degree?

Point is, to analyze their fit we need to know who Kessler is offensively.

Yep. At this point we still have no idea where Kessler will progress offensively. A lot depends on the coach and his willingness to allow the needed growing pains for him to expand his game. It may take a little while for Kessler to build confidence in his outside shot during games and if he struggles early in that process you may see the coaching staff give up on it. The same may go for giving him an opportunity to facilitate a little bit. Both the outside shot and his facilitating may never come or it could be years down the line.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think Collins being as athletic as he is and being able to get above the rim makes him a more versatile threat than some give him credit for. Playing an active and mobile off ball role on offense will highlight those traits now that he is not a statue in a guard iso heavy slow paced halfcourt offense.

I think he will be effective in transition, rim running, backdoor cuts and PnR as well as the obvious spacing and shooting (if stars align). As Lauri shoots a lot from 3 he will also collect offensive boards and get putbacks, as he is a great rebounder.

Obviously all hinges on his shooting getting back to above average, but if that happens I think he will surprise many in how well he fits in Hardys system offensively and also with Lauri.

Thats the hope... like do the stuff Vando was doing but be good at it. At this point I just need to see how it works but I'm skeptical. Mike and KO provide a lot of spacing and passing... swapping out Mike for... who knows... but will be a downgrade shooting and passing. Some KO minutes moving toward Collins with the starters just might not be the fruitful grounds for him to produce.

I think the Lauri/JC at the 4/5 with a sprinkle of Hendricks if he is good and ready might be a nice offensive punch that is okay enough on defense. Hopefully JC can also thrive with the starters... I would have gone a different direction .

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think the problem in analyzing Kessler and Collins pairing is that Kessler had such a short leash offensively that we dont really have enough info.

If Kessler is Zubac, then Collins is likely not a good fit. If Kessler is Brook Lopez, then he is. Or who is to say that Kessler cannot be a distributor like KO to some degree?

Point is, to analyze their fit we need to know who Kessler is offensively.

lmao how the **** is Kessler going to become Brook Lopez? What lala land you living in brother Herman? And he might become one of the best passing/playmaking (non-star) bigs in the NBA? Lay off the weed (SAS voice)

Kessler is a Rudy clone w/ more hand-eye coordination. Dont expect any Lopez like offensive jumps for years to come (if they ever come).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Im sure Walker/Collins can play together just fine. I wouldnt completely avoid minutes together, I'd just want the bulk of my Collins minutes to be without Walker.

 

[HermanG]

lmao how the **** is Kessler going to become Brook Lopez? What lala land you living in brother Herman? And he might become one of the best passing/playmaking (non-star) bigs in the NBA? Lay off the weed (SAS voice)

Kessler is a Rudy clone w/ more hand-eye coordination. Dont expect any Lopez like offensive jumps for years to come (if they ever come).

How do you always act so butt-hurt when someone points out a valid flaw in your logic. Also incredibly hostile whenever you disagree with me specifically.

Feel free to prematurely label Kessler all you want, but I'd rather believe the headcoach than the official false prophet of JFC.

Direct quote from Hardy:
"There’s nothing right now that hits me in the face as a big limitation."

Direct quote from Cy:

Kessler is our future backup, not our future starter.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

How do you always act so butt-hurt when someone points out a valid flaw in your logic. Also incredibly hostile whenever you disagree with me specifically.

Feel free to prematurely label Kessler all you want, but I'd rather believe the headcoach than the official false prophet of JFC.

Direct quote from Hardy:
"There’s nothing right now that hits me in the face as a big limitation."

Direct quote from Cy:

You got a weird definition of hostile.

You are free to live in LaLa land, but I'm telling you what the reality is.

 

[fishonjazz]

Also incredibly hostile whenever you disagree with me specifically.

Try not to take it personally. That is just Cy. I have often felt the same way. As have a large number of other posters im sure. I dont think he can control it. It can feel like he has it out for you but i dont think he does, its just how he is.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

No Clarkson?

nope. the hope would be that he demands a trade.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Or KO

nope. the hope would be that he demands a trade.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

nope. the hope would be that he demands a trade.

nope. the hope would be that he demands a trade.

Ya we don’t want that at all.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Ya we don’t want that at all.

you must have misunderstood my post. it's exactly what we want to happen. those two dudes should not be in the future plans of the utah jazz and we don't want them stunting the development of young players who may very well ultimately help the jazz become contenders. the jazz with clarkson and ko are mediocre. the jazz without clarkson and ko are mediocre. but in the latter scenario, you are allowing young players to develop and hopefully become leaders of this team going forward.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Jazz should want to retain both KO and Clarkson for as long as possible as bench pieces. Both will still be quality players 3 years down the line

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

you must have misunderstood my post. it's exactly what we want to happen. those two dudes should not be in the future plans of the utah jazz and we don't want them stunting the development of young players who may very well ultimately help the jazz become contenders. the jazz with clarkson and ko are mediocre. the jazz without clarkson and ko are mediocre. but in the latter scenario, you are allowing young players to develop and hopefully become leaders of this team going forward.

Either way we don't want them demanding out... maybe we move them by the deadline but this is really kind of an as-is exercise. As is JC and KO will be eating up minutes. I would like to see the young guys get a bigger workload as the season progresses. KO and JC might be around another year or two though. Not like KO gonna get a huge offer in FA at his age.... Might be a decent value if we bring him back.