Roe v. Wade is going down

[Al-O-Meter]

Looks like more inequality at play. Too bad these kids don't have the advantages the white students do. If we could balance that out it would create an immediate gain the test results. Not sure how much that has to do with bad teachers.

It has everything to do with bad teachers. The group most responsible for shutting down schools, even after it became clear children are both at near zero risk and not a substantial vector of transmission, has been teacher's unions. Children living in two-parent households, and especially those with financial resources, where better able to weather the union-dictated school closures. The undeniable result of the teacher's union's lobbying is a massive expansion of the educational achievement gap. If disparate outcomes is indicative of racism, then no single group in this country is more racist than teachers because no single group's actions can rival the level is disparity directly created by the effort to shut down public schools.

If you want to talk across-the-board failure to educate children, that is bad teachers. If you want to blame it on "inequality", all you are doing is finding a different way to blame teachers.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Putting aside you ignorance/mischaracterization of what schools of education teach, does this mean you oppose how Florida is responding to the teacher shortage?

Veterans can now teach in Florida with no degree. School leaders say it 'lowers the bar'

Military veterans can now become teachers in Florida Public Schools for five years without a bachelor's degree.

www.heraldtribune.com

No, because I don't equate a degree with being informed. I have known far too many crazy smart people who don't have a degree, and too many morons who posses a degree to believe they go hand-in-hand. Some of the corporations who snap up the brightest minds have also dropped degree requirements. They too realize what a crap job modern teachers are doing to actually educate the next generation. Florida is aptly recognizing the environment and making adjustments to adjust to it. We will see if Florida test scores start to rise.

 

[One Brow]

No, because I don't equate a degree with being informed.

Of course. You can always count on conservatives to dismiss what a difficult job teaching really is.

 

[LogGrad98]

Of course. You can always count on conservatives to dismiss what a difficult job teaching really is.

What's funny is the single most conservative guy I know, my BIL, is a teacher and was actually part of the teachers union leadership in his state for a while. Exactly the opposite I would expect. Of course now he is an elementary school principal, which was what he aspired to all along (the principal part, not necessarily the elementary school part). By all accounts he was an effective and beloved teacher, and he is a good administrator, but one who happens to think something like QAnon could actually be a thing, without full on admitting he believes in it. Crazy.

 

[Avery]

Underpaid? Check.
Have to buy your own supplies for your students from your own pocketbook? Check.
Parents imploring them to teach what they think they should teach vs. actual curriculum? Check.
Cameras in the classroom because you don't trust them? Check.
Blamed for student's poor performance instead of student accountability? Check.
Responsible for students breaking supplies like Chromebooks and be responsible for the cost of them? Check.
Work in a hostile environment with disrespectful kids and admin that shield them? Check.
Increasing pupil to teacher ratios of 30:1 or more per class and the hours of grading that happens after school and on weekends? Check.
Have to find a sub and write lesson plans yourself when you're out sick? Check.
Asked to carry guns but not trusted to adhere to district-mandated curriculum? Check.
Have a mantra of working nine months a year when in reality conferences, prep work, etc. are constant throughout the summer? Check.
States and districts dropping degrees and certifications which will further dilute the pool of good teachers? Check.

Yeah, can't imagine why teachers might be bitter.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Of course. You can always count on conservatives to dismiss what a difficult job teaching really is.

What I am refusing to dismiss is that the products of public schools have lower test scores today than they did 10 years ago, and those kids had lower test scores than the kids 10 years before that. Furthermore, it has been documented how increasingly education is dominated by those on the political left. There is a direct correlation between the increasing prevalence in the teaching profession of people of the type who resonate with the things The Thriller posts in this forum and the declining math, science, and reading scores for America's kids.

The Thriller has openly boasted about teaching misinformation to kids in his classes. At least you've got a good side hustle going, One Brow, teaching kids the math their public school teachers didn't teach them.

 

[One Brow]

What I am refusing to dismiss is that the products of public schools have lower test scores today than they did 10 years ago, and those kids had lower test scores than the kids 10 years before that.

I heard my parents comment on how people were treating teachers as a kid in the 60s. I read newspaper articles about it in the 70s. I tried teaching briefly in the 80s, and really heard about it then. With the advent of the internet in the 90s, I read a steady stream of people dismissing the job teachers do and calling the kids underperforming. It seems kids are always doing worse overall than they did 10 years ago.

So, which tests, have they remained static, and has the behavior of children changed in any major way in the last decade? What's true about today's 18-year-olds, that wasn't so true about the current crop of 28-year-olds, and how might that affect tests designed in the previous century?

Furthermore, it has been documented how increasingly education is dominated by those on the political left.

Of course it is. It's a service occupation that's not about social control or combat, and all of them are dominated by the political left (and always have been); much like banking is dominated by the political right.

There is a direct correlation between the increasing prevalence in the teaching profession of people of the type who resonate with the things

There is no increasing prevalence. Teachers have been liberal, overall, since I was a kid.

At least you've got a good side hustle going, One Brow, teaching kids the math their public school teachers didn't teach them.

When my students talk about why they didn't learn X in school (something I don't actually ask them, but it seems to come up from time to time), they almost never blame the teacher or say it wasn't taught. They didn't take the class or didn't study.

 

[fishonjazz]

What I am refusing to dismiss is that the products of public schools have lower test scores today than they did 10 years ago, and those kids had lower test scores than the kids 10 years before that. Furthermore, it has been documented how increasingly education is dominated by those on the political left. There is a direct correlation between the increasing prevalence in the teaching profession of people of the type who resonate with the things The Thriller posts in this forum and the declining math, science, and reading scores for America's kids.

The Thriller has openly boasted about teaching misinformation to kids in his classes. At least you've got a good side hustle going, One Brow, teaching kids the math their public school teachers didn't teach them.

Republicans should go to college to get teaching degrees more then. Maybe they dont actually care about education when it comes right down to it. Talk alot but dont back it up. Similar to pro life.


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Republicans should go to college to get teaching degrees more then. Maybe they dont actually care about education when it comes right down to it.

College degrees are expensive. Conservatives know it would be folly to spend that much on a degree when they'd have almost no chance of landing a job as a teacher.

In the more than 20 years that I have been a professor at Georgetown University, I have been involved in many faculty searches. ... no search committee has ever been instructed to increase political or ideological diversity. On the contrary, I have been involved in searches in which the chairman of the selection committee stated that no libertarian candidates would be considered. Or the description of the position was changed when the best résumés appeared to be coming from applicants with right-of-center viewpoints. Or in which candidates were dismissed because of their association with conservative or libertarian institutions.

The One Kind of Diversity Colleges Avoid

I’ve seen faculty searches up close. Somehow teachers with conservative views just don’t make the cut.

www.wsj.com

Contrary to the guess made by One Brow, the data shows the discriminatory hiring practices are getting even more discriminatory with the passage of time.

the D:R registration ratio has increased over time, from roughly 4.5:1 in 1999 (Rothman et al, 2005) to 10:1 among elite liberal arts colleges and social science departments now (Langbert et al, 2016; Langbert, 2018).

Partisan Registration and Contributions of Faculty in Flagship Colleges by Sean Stevens | NAS

www.nas.org

Yes conservatives care about education because conservatives are still having kids. The strongest voting block democrats have is childless, college-educated white women. It is the same demographic most strongly pushing the idea that children aren't human and mothers should be able to kill them.

 

[One Brow]

I see you've changed the subject from Florida's hiring of elementary/secondary teachers, or such teachers in general, to pretending we were discussing college teachers.

College degrees are expensive. Conservatives know it would be folly to spend that much on a degree when they'd have almost no chance of landing a job as a teacher.

Actually, if you're at all a decent candidate, you'll go to graduate school for free (your example was obviously the hiring of a Ph.D.).

On the contrary, I have been involved in searches in which the chairman of the selection committee stated that no libertarian candidates would be considered.

I hear university biology departments don't hire creationists, either. Although, I shouldn't insult creationists that way. While they're wrong,k what they propose isn't impossible.

Contrary to the guess made by One Brow, the data shows the discriminatory hiring practices are getting even more discriminatory with the passage of time.

I made a guess on discriminatory hiring practices? I think not. I was discussing who would be interested in a career path in the types of schools Florida was hiring for.

Yes conservatives care about education because conservatives are still having kids.

Are you claiming conservatives have more kids than liberals by a significant margin?

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1250&context=sigma

 

[Red]

What I am refusing to dismiss is that the products of public schools have lower test scores today than they did 10 years ago, and those kids had lower test scores than the kids 10 years before that. Furthermore, it has been documented how increasingly education is dominated by those on the political left. There is a direct correlation between the increasing prevalence in the teaching profession of people of the type who resonate with the things The Thriller posts in this forum and the declining math, science, and reading scores for America's kids.

The Thriller has openly boasted about teaching misinformation to kids in his classes. At least you've got a good side hustle going, One Brow, teaching kids the math their public school teachers didn't teach them.

Personally, I think it’s silly to blame a teacher’s political leanings on whether or not they can teach algebra effectively. I think you just start with the proposition that leftists suck, note that many teachers are leftists, and conclude students scores in math are declining because too many of their teachers lean left.

-Teachers who lean left are terrible teachers
-Our secondary schools are dominated by teachers who lean left
-therefore, students with teachers who lean left will receive a poor education and will do poorly on ACT and SAT

Teacher quality scores change depending on students, school

School districts across the U.S. are increasingly using student test scores to rate the effectiveness of teachers, but a new study found that the scores have less to do with individual teachers and more to do with their students and the schools.

www.sciencedaily.com

2010 study that may be useful….

Problems with the use of student test scores to evaluate teachers

Every classroom should have a well-educated, professional teacher, and school systems should recruit, prepare, and retain teachers who are qualified to do the job. Yet in practice, American public schools generally do a poor job of systematically developing and evaluating teachers.

www.epi.org

 

[The Thriller]

Give this a listen. The fallout from Roe being overturned continues. And it’s not good.


View: https://twitter.com/connieschultz/status/1551909305166839809?s=21&t=JaYOeI7zqjG58qe6OCqYVg

 

[LogGrad98]

Give this a listen. The fallout from Roe being overturned continues. And it’s not good.


View: https://twitter.com/connieschultz/status/1551909305166839809?s=21&t=JaYOeI7zqjG58qe6OCqYVg

Republicans accept that lives will, nay must, be lost in the battle to, uh, save lives. Uh. Or something.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Personally, I think it’s silly to blame a teacher’s political leanings on whether or not they can teach algebra effectively. I think you just start with the proposition that leftists suck, note that many teachers are leftists, and conclude students scores in math are declining because too many of their teachers lean left.

I can tell that you don't have a school-aged kid in the system right now and therefor do not know of what you speak.

The single most important principle in education right now is equity, or equal outcomes. If teachers and administrators have to make a choice between having their kids get the best scores and they're labeled as racist, or their kids get lower scores and they are not labeled as racists, the choice now is always made to sacrifice kids in order to not be labeled as racist. There is a racial achievement gap that existed even before COVID but is larger now after having been exacerbated by the union-driven COVID lockouts. Raising the academic scores of under-performing kids is a really, really hard job and the teachers are doing their best to do that but they've also taken to attacking the problem of the achievement gap from the other end as well. Schools are playing wack-a-mole with high-performing students to slow their learning.

Calculus classes are being cut. It is hard for teachers to effectively teach a subject that has been cut from the curriculum due to political leanings. Gifted programs are being cut. The area where I live has a mandate that they are forbidden from cutting gifted programs if the number of students in the area who test as being gifted exceeds 17% of all area kids enrolled. My kid's test is this Thursday, in the middle of summer break. The gifted program qualification testing has never, ever been done over summer break, and they made us jump through several hoops even to get on the testing list. If not enough parents did the things to get their kids on the testing list and/or the kids who do take the test suffer any learning loss that is reflected in the test scores, the aggregate number will drop below 17% and the district will have the green light to cut the gifted programs.

Kids are being sacrificed. My kid is being sacrificed but at least my kid can now look forward to going back to school in the fall while being required to wear a mask again while they slow-walk the curriculum thanks to people like The Thriller.

 

[One Brow]

I can tell that you don't have a school-aged kid in the system right now and therefor do not know of what you speak.

I can tell that you don't understand a thing about education and have no hesitancy to speak with confidence.

The single most important principle in education right now is equity, or equal outcomes.

This might be true for a handful of educators or even the occasional administrator, bur for the vast majority, the single most important principle is making sure there's enough money to keep the lights on and the salaries going out.

If teachers and administrators have to make a choice between having their kids get the best scores and they're labeled as racist, or their kids get lower scores and they are not labeled as racists, the choice now is always made to sacrifice kids in order to not be labeled as racist.

You'd need to have a wide swath of evidence to back up the notion that people who have devoted their lives to education are suddenly insisting on diseducation.

Schools are playing wack-a-mole with high-performing students to slow their learning.

Schools are willing to sacrifice their budgets by reducing their overall test scores? I scoff heartily.

Calculus classes are being cut. It is hard for teachers to effectively teach a subject that has been cut from the curriculum due to political leanings.

There are political leanings against calculus?

Gifted programs are being cut.

Truly gifted children will learn anyhow; you can't stop them. They'll read ahead, get sent to the library, help the other kids with their homework, etc. They learn to use their gifts to help others. They grow socially and emotionally (which is also something educators needs to provide as the elementary and secondary levels).

Mainstreaming the Gifted

www.ascd.org

 

[fishonjazz]

Al just going off the deep end. Again.
The left is anti calculus!
Make america calculussy again!



Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Red]

I can tell that you don't have a school-aged kid in the system right now and therefor do not know of what you speak.

The last department I worked for, quite awhile ago, used anonymous surveys where students rated….me. I’m sure that’s a common enough practice. These surveys, which obviously I was expected to read, were very helpful to me, in coming to terms with shortcomings the students were in a better position to judge. My classes were likely a bit out of the ordinary, as the students ranged from fresh out of high school to retirees. We were all teachers, as I learned as much from my students as they hopefully learned from me.

Otherwise, in my reply I simply pointed out there are likely many factors playing into test scores, and the role individual teachers play in the education of their students. I noticed you did not address those factors at all. Obviously, you have a very low opinion of the profession of teaching. You seem very ignorant in that respect.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

There are political leanings against calculus?

There is in my state, but I live in California so does that really surprise? The effort being pushed now is to have all kids, from the gifted to the remedial, take the exact same math classes through their sophomore year in the name of equity.

California's controversial math overhaul focuses on equity

Critics say California's proposed math framework waters down content in pursuit of equity. Defenders say social awareness will accelerate learning.

www.latimes.com

My kids, who is in public school, is taking extracurricular math classes because what they "teach" him he learned 2 years ago and my kids is not freakishly smart.

As for budgets, they way you paint the struggle implies you live in a very different world. Our local district is huge with over 121.000 kids and 239 schools. Funding has nothing to do with test scores and is instead set purely by enrollment weighted inversely by property values. Schools in expensive neighborhoods get little money while schools in run down areas get the most money. The schools in the expensive neighborhoods make up their budget shortfalls by getting corporate sponsorship and fundraisers through a satellite organization that is sort of like a cross between a PTA and a private school board. For instance, at my kid's elementary school the librarian is not a district employee but is employed by the satellite organization. The satellite organization built the STEM lab in the school and bought Promethean interactive displays for all the classrooms. The satellite organization pays to send teachers to training classes over the summer. The school is technically a public school but in practice is a hybrid of public and private. The school isn't as impacted by district funding but is a slave to mandates in curriculum coming from the district office or state department of education.

 

[LogGrad98]

I can tell that you don't understand a thing about education and have no hesitancy to speak with confidence.


This might be true for a handful of educators or even the occasional administrator, bur for the vast majority, the single most important principle is making sure there's enough money to keep the lights on and the salaries going out.



You'd need to have a wide swath of evidence to back up the notion that people who have devoted their lives to education are suddenly insisting on diseducation.


Schools are willing to sacrifice their budgets by reducing their overall test scores? I scoff heartily.


There are political leanings against calculus?


Truly gifted children will learn anyhow; you can't stop them. They'll read ahead, get sent to the library, help the other kids with their homework, etc. They learn to use their gifts to help others. They grow socially and emotionally (which is also something educators needs to provide as the elementary and secondary levels).

Mainstreaming the Gifted

www.ascd.org

My daughter moved herself up 3 grades when she was in elementary school. She got bored in 1st grade, and had a few friends in our neighborhood in 4th, so one day after recess she just went with them. After the teacher talked to her and the principal and they let her stay in that class for a day, they found out she was nearly on that level in almost everything they were doing. They had no gifted program, per se, but they ended up letting her spend half her day in 3rd grade and half her day in 1st, where she helped other kids with reading and math.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

The left is anti calculus!
Make america calculussy again!

What happens in California today will happen in your state soon enough. We have more The Thrillers out here so we get it faster.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/04/us/california-math-curriculum-guidelines.html