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Roster Balancing Guys

Why? Cuz Bogie wouldn’t be good at it? Or because you don’t think the jazz would shift bogie’s minutes in the event of a JC trade?
The bench unit still needs someone who is a shot creator and that is not Bogie. So if you trade JC you are trying to find someone who does a lot of what he does which says why trade him. I just dont see a JC trade happening. I think Q really l likes JC and likes what he brings us. And I am probably in the minority on this but I think the JC contract is a good value.
 
The Jazz have a better record with one of their main scorers/ballhandlers out. They have had two series with 120+ ORTG when Bogey and Conley have been out. They've now added 3 plus usage scorers and a rookie who's primary attribute is scoring/creating. If you think scoring is a concern, I hope you enjoy epic defensive failures year after year.
 
I saw a story this morning on the internet about Australia and New Zealand and COVID. NZ is closing its borders until next February and Australia is requiring its Olympic athletes to quarantine for four weeks upon returning home. This will impact Americans playing hoops there and if China is not allowing import players, there will be some guys walking the streets that are talented without a place to play. I would assume the GLeague would be the beneficiary of this but there could be an end of the bench guy in this pool.
 
The Jazz have a better record with one of their main scorers/ballhandlers out. They have had two series with 120+ ORTG when Bogey and Conley have been out. They've now added 3 plus usage scorers and a rookie who's primary attribute is scoring/creating. If you think scoring is a concern, I hope you enjoy epic defensive failures year after year.
With Bogey and Conley out we still have someone who creates offense with the first unit. Gay can be a real boost offensively but I don't see him as a creator at this point plus I think it is uncertain how many productive minutes a night we get from him. As for the rookie, count me as one of the few that thinks people are way ahead of themselves building him into the rotation at this point. I hope he is ready but not many number 40 picks jump right in and contribute. Hopefully we get lucky. If so, JC is clearly expendable. While I clearly don't want epic defensive failures, I am not interested in going backward into an anemic offensive bench.
 
With Bogey and Conley out we still have someone who creates offense with the first unit. Gay can be a real boost offensively but I don't see him as a creator at this point plus I think it is uncertain how many productive minutes a night we get from him. As for the rookie, count me as one of the few that thinks people are way ahead of themselves building him into the rotation at this point. I hope he is ready but not many number 40 picks jump right in and contribute. Hopefully we get lucky. If so, JC is clearly expendable. While I clearly don't want epic defensive failures, I am not interested in going backward into an anemic offensive bench.

If JC was out, Conley is leading the second unit as he always did. The rotation was always staggered.
 
With Bogey and Conley out we still have someone who creates offense with the first unit. Gay can be a real boost offensively but I don't see him as a creator at this point plus I think it is uncertain how many productive minutes a night we get from him. As for the rookie, count me as one of the few that thinks people are way ahead of themselves building him into the rotation at this point. I hope he is ready but not many number 40 picks jump right in and contribute. Hopefully we get lucky. If so, JC is clearly expendable. While I clearly don't want epic defensive failures, I am not interested in going backward into an anemic offensive bench.
You clearly don’t remember the rotations that Q instituted last year. And you have a weird impression about what Bogie can’t do. Dude gets buckets.
 
You clearly don’t remember the rotations that Q instituted last year. And you have a weird impression about what Bogie can’t do. Dude gets buckets.
Bogie does indeed get buckets. But I don't think he is good at creating his own shot. We need that on the 2nd unit. Many of you think trading JC is obvious. I guess we will see what the FO thinks.
 
If JC was out, Conley is leading the second unit as he always did. The rotation was always staggered.
The rotation was clearly staggered. I am happy to agree to disagree with you and others that think we should trade JC. I am not seeing it and think it will leave a hole. JC clearly has his down side and can be a black hole but I think we have two very good shot creators and I want one of them on the floor at all times.
 
The rotation was clearly staggered. I am happy to agree to disagree with you and others that think we should trade JC. I am not seeing it and think it will leave a hole. JC clearly has his down side and can be a black hole but I think we have two very good shot creators and I want one of them on the floor at all times.
Just for clarity, the discussion hasn’t been “We should trade JC”, it’s been “Since we need a noticeable upgrade on the defensive side of the ball, perhaps we should trade either JC or Bogie”.

At that point, people started giving their different opinions.

I think almost everyone appreciates the value that both players bring to the team.
 
It's possible that Eric Paschall is going to be better than a late-rotation or end-of-bench guy. He's a lot like an old school player named Rodney Rogers who was a starter and 6th man a while back.
 
NZ is closing its borders until next February and Australia is requiring its Olympic athletes to quarantine for four weeks upon returning home
Haven't seen anything about NZ, but that sounds ******* crazy, can't believe they do that.
For Australia, since they all fly in to (I think) Sydney, they all quarantine there for 2 weeks, and some (South Australia?) states also require 2w quarantine upon entrance from other states, so for some of them it's a full month (unless someone does something, and for example lets them transit straight home and quarantine for 2 weeks there).
 
If anything happens to the roster it's going to be a mid-season trade. I think the Jazz are done making moves (other than cutting Brantley, filling out the training camp roster, and signing a new 2-way player).
 
If anything happens to the roster it's going to be a mid-season trade. I think the Jazz are done making moves (other than cutting Brantley, filling out the training camp roster, and signing a new 2-way player).
Unless something damn good comes up this is what happens.
 
I am open to a JC trade (for Markannen) but.. not many can replace his scoring leadership on the 2nd unit all season long so it could be a plain stupid move. Bogey is great in spurts but I don't think he could cut it like JC can.
 
Those two are more duplicative to Bogey than Nance imo.
Maybe... I think the idea/appeal with Nance is you have a small 5 for a few minutes a night that can shoot a little and playmake. I think Nance is a more disruptive defender but may have the same net effect of playing Gay at the 5. Paschall is the iffy shooting small ball 5... Nance is still an iffy shooter.

Given our current roster I wouldn't do Bogey for Nance. If FA had gone a different way I'd consider it.
 
Maybe... I think the idea/appeal with Nance is you have a small 5 for a few minutes a night that can shoot a little and playmake. I think Nance is a more disruptive defender but may have the same net effect of playing Gay at the 5. Paschall is the iffy shooting small ball 5... Nance is still an iffy shooter.

Given our current roster I wouldn't do Bogey for Nance. If FA had gone a different way I'd consider it.

From a positional perspective I get what you're saying. They are all 4/5s...but Nance is a much different player imo. He's a great defender at both the 4 and 5...terrific energy and disruptor. He's a great utility guy who makes impacts on games without scoring...scoring and shooting are his limitation.

Paschall is kinda the exact opposite. He doesn't defend, doesn't rebound, and hasn't figured out how to play in a team concept. Both may be iffy shooters, but the one thing Paschall can do is get buckets. Nance is the player the does a million things besides scoring, Paschall is the guy where scoring is pretty much all he does.

Gay is a strong defender, but not at the same level or activity as Nance. No shame in that, I think Nance is one of the better defenders in the league at his position. He's just a different player. I know Gay has changed up his game as he's gotten older, but he's still so much different than Nance. He's a more prolific shooter and still gets to his spots in his mid range. Gay's scoring/shooting ability made me more comfortable with trading Bogey because he provides some offensive firepower even if he's not at the same level as Bogey.

I would still do Bogey for Nance. I can see how we might be feeling a little light on scoring if you're planning to play Royce+Nance+Gobert, but I think Gay is good insurance if you needed a bigger body who can also score. I'm wondering if the actual trade would be Ingles for Nance. I think Joe is a better player than Bogey...but it's clear that Quin has Bogey in much higher regard.
 
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From a positional perspective I get what you're saying. They are all 4/5s...but Nance is a much different player imo. He's a great defender at both the 4 and 5...terrific energy and disruptor. He's a great utility guy who makes impacts on games without scoring...scoring and shooting are his limitation.

Paschall is kinda the exact opposite. He doesn't defend, doesn't rebound, and hasn't figured out how to play in a team concept. Both may be iffy shooters, but the one thing Paschall can do is get buckets. Nance is the player the does a million things besides scoring, Paschall is the guy where scoring is pretty much all he does.

Gay is a strong defender, but not at the same level or activity as Nance. No shame in that, I think Nance is one of the better defenders in the league at his position. He's just a different player. I know Gay has changed up his game as he's gotten older, but he's still so much different than Nance. He's a more prolific shooter and still gets to his spots in his mid range. Gay's scoring/shooting ability made me more comfortable with trading Bogey because he provides some offensive firepower even if he's not at the same level as Bogey.

I would still do Bogey for Nance. I can see how we might be feeling a little light on scoring if you're planning to play Royce+Nance+Gobert, but I think Gay is good insurance if you needed a bigger body who can also score. I'm wondering if the actual trade would be Ingles for Nance. I think Joe is a better player than Bogey...but it's clear that Quin has Bogey in much higher regard.
I think it's more about the overall picture. We've had this teeter-totter over the past number of years where we were heavy on defense, light on offense, then swung hard to offense with limited defense. Now we're trying to correct without as large of a swing, and under-correcting while maintaining more of an offense. Moving away from Niang to Gay trends in the direction of overall better with a slight chipping away at spacing. Moving Bojan for Nance in that context is making a much larger jump in that direction for a guy who, while certainly different, is "on that side of the line." I would think moving Bojan for Nance moves you under a certain threshold offensively for doing what we do and having it look the same.
 
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