Jimmy Butler's Day off - Jazz @ Timberbulls 10/31/2018 6 pm MST

[LoPo]

Great post @Bawse Dawg. Spot on.


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[Deleted member 5000]

Wow. 50!!!

I remember getting **** here for saying Utah should sign Derrick Rose when he was down and out... We didn't even have decent backup PG's at the time either.

I wouldnt have minded giving him a shot but we're assuming he was even open to playing here, Thibs might have been his only choice against retirement.

Remember our start to last season? We were considering the tank! We're making the playoffs im just hoping we ball out with a 4th seed and stay healthy.

And on Rubio... He knows his role well. He plays hard but it hurts to see guys sag off him. Favors in the corner gives a chuckle, but if he ever did shoot that north of 33% that'd be cool. Niang thyme sounds yummy. Favors is a solid backup 5. We are headed towards cobra kai niang lineups, coach is just easing us in that direction slower than we would in 2k

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The starting lineup looked terrible in the preseason and in every game so far this season. Every. Single. Time. We start the game rough, and then sub in a real stretch 4 for Favors and go on a run. How much more evidence do we need? Favors is a back up center, plain and simple. Mitchell and Gobert are so easily our best players, and Favors just kills the spacing completely. And don't tell me he is some game changer on D. KAT went off every time Gobert went out of the game yesterday.

The 1st half the Jazz were a +3 with Favors and Gobert in the 1st quarter. In the 3rd quarter they were a +3 with the Favors/Gobert pair.

So they were a +6 in a game the Jazz lost by 3. I wish people wouldnt talk out their *** and would actually fact check what they are saying.

 

[LoPo]

You are cherry picking stats Cy. If Crowder and Gobert started together, we could be +10. You don't know. Favors has the benefit of playing within our ultimate lineup. Gobert, Mitchell and Ingles are so incredibly talented. Against a thinned out team like Minny, we should have a major gap between our starters and bench units. We can do better than +3.

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[Bawse Dawg]

The 1st half the Jazz were a +3 with Favors and Gobert in the 1st quarter. In the 3rd quarter they were a +3 with the Favors/Gobert pair.

So they were a +6 in a game the Jazz lost by 3. I wish people wouldnt talk out their *** and would actually fact check what they are saying.

And overall Gobert was a +13 and Favors was a -7.

The game started out really sloppy, being up three when the first subs come in, great I guess. We still didn't look good.

Mitchell was going HAM in the third. Congrats on being on the floor at the same time I guess.

+/- can be extremely misleading. But if you do like it so much you can go look at the +/- of the starters, and then look at it for some other lineups.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We know it's coming with Rubio, so it's worth enduring some struggle. Rubio showed what's he can do in New Orleans.

The exact same **** happened last year, and I defended Rubio and it paid off. I don't think Rubio will take as long this year to get into his groove.

Again, Rubio is the guy who put up a triple double in the playoffs. He's worth having some faith and patience in.

And last night, Exum is the one who got cooked by Rose to a higher degree. https://stats.nba.com/game/0021800107/matchups/?sort=POSS&dir=1&OFF_PLAYER_ID=201565&DEF_PLAYER_ID=

Ricky was good to start the year last year... so I don't think this is the exact same **** at all. I don't need him to score 15-20 a game but he can't have this many empty offensive games. He's had two good games and 5 garbage games (on offense... his defense is generally good/great).

I don't blame either guy for last night... I'm with you on the whole Rose just got hot thing. I'm talking offense... We don't know its coming with Rubio. Dante is scoring at like twice the rate Rubio is and he's doing it much more efficiently... so you can talk "ceiling" all you want, but don't ignore the "floor" The floor has been really bad. Like if your financial planner told you to invest in lotto tickets because the "ceiling" is fantastic (obviously exaggeration... Ricky has more good games than lotto odds).

Currently Dante is shooting 58% at the rim and taking nearly half his shots there. Getting to the line 7 times per 36 minutes. Shooting 31% from three.

Ricky is shooting 40% at the rim and takes only 16% of his shots there. Gets to the line 3.3 times per 36 minutes. Shooting 32% from three. Ricky gets twice as many assists but also twice as many turnovers.

I think Ricky will get better... I think we should have patience... but I've seen enough of the Ricky, Rudy, Favs combo to know that we'd be wise to move a different direction one way or another. Doesn't have to happen now, but long term if we want to go from good to great I'm looking at the PF position and the other guard/wing position as the best opportunities to improve.

On nights Ricky struggles we should go more towards Exum and see what it looks like... or AB or Grayson. We have an expensive decision to make on Ricky this summer and I need to see what the other options look like.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

And overall Gobert was a +13 and Favors was a -7.

The game started out really sloppy, being up three when the first subs come in, great I guess. We still didn't look good.

Mitchell was going HAM in the third. Congrats on being on the floor at the same time I guess.

+/- can be extremely misleading. But if you do like it so much you can go look at the +/- of the starters, and then look at it for some other lineups.

Favors wasnt on the court for Mitchell's scoring outburst. Mitchell scored 11 points after the starting lineup subbed out in the 3rd.

 

[Watcher]

Is it just me or did KAT and Rose get away with a lot of hooking and/or pushing off on offense? I noticed it more with KAT than Rose but it seems like both of them were doing it. Not to take away from Rose's performance or anything. He couldn't miss last night.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And overall Gobert was a +13 and Favors was a -7.

The game started out really sloppy, being up three when the first subs come in, great I guess. We still didn't look good.

Mitchell was going HAM in the third. Congrats on being on the floor at the same time I guess.

+/- can be extremely misleading. But if you do like it so much you can go look at the +/- of the starters, and then look at it for some other lineups.

League wide you look at trends... stretch bigs make an incredible impact on offense. One of the common themes of teams that are over-performing is generally throwing stretch bigs out on the floor. The spacing just gets so much better. Teams that are generally under-performing... not enough shooting or not shooting well.

The issue is with the Favs, Rudy, Ricky combo. I think it might do Ricky a lot of good to have a stretch PF on the floor when he's driving... the high turnovers and low percentages might be due to another big sagging in the paint.

I know we aren't trying to rock the boat and we want everyone to stay engaged, but I hope we don't just keep rolling it out there every night. Last night it makes sense to start Favs... most nights we'd be better off with Crowder/Niang at the 4.

 

[fishonjazz]

It's basically impossible to play Niang more if Crowder is playing well unless Quin decides to play them togther. Crowder also offers a hustle/rebounding/toughness presence that is really important. Niang isnt a guy who comes up with 50/50 balls and Crowder is.

The entire team looked like they had been on the road for 9 days, cuz that's what had happened.

You can play niang more when crowder is playing well. Its called playing favors less.

 

[fishonjazz]

Exum is great when he pushes the ball in transition and puts pressure on a scrambling defense. He just isnt good in half-court offense and the upper-bound of what Rubio is capable of is just better.

The upper-bound of Exum (that he has shown) is a change of pace guard who is great in transition and finishes at the rim. We've gotten the first part, but not the 2nd part as Exum's paint finishing has been below expected.

I think exum has been just fine in the half court setting. Been getting to the paint and dishing to open teammates and not turning it over. Rubio on the other hand.....

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Mitchell scored 11 points after the starting lineup subbed out in the 3rd.

Hmmmmmmm.....


Honestly CY, you're smarter about this stuff than me. And Favors did only play 23 minutes last night, so maybe I'm not giving Quin enough credit. But sometimes it just looks really ugly, and I feel like there are opportunities, to play a hot hand, or switch to a lineup that is playing well together, or whatever. But that sounds a lot more like speculation, and heresay and I don't want to live on that kind of hill.

I haven't liked the way the starters looked, I'd love to see some lineups that include more Niang and Exum. That, I feel comfortable saying.

I also know 100% that Quin and the Jazz front office know this **** sooooo much better than me, and they've earned my trust.

 

[fishonjazz]

League wide you look at trends... stretch bigs make an incredible impact on offense. One of the common themes of teams that are over-performing is generally throwing stretch bigs out on the floor. The spacing just gets so much better. Teams that are generally under-performing... not enough shooting or not shooting well.

The issue is with the Favs, Rudy, Ricky combo. I think it might do Ricky a lot of good to have a stretch PF on the floor when he's driving... the high turnovers and low percentages might be due to another big sagging in the paint.

I know we aren't trying to rock the boat and we want everyone to stay engaged, but I hope we don't just keep rolling it out there every night. Last night it makes sense to start Favs... most nights we'd be better off with Crowder/Niang at the 4.

Niko had another great game last night. 10-15 from the field for 26 points along with 10 rebounds.

 

[fishonjazz]

He's played 25 minutes of his total 132 minutes this season with Udoh.

Exum has gotten 57 minutes with Gobert. He's gotten 55 minutes with Favors. 50 minutes with Mitchell. 80 minutes with Ingles. 38 minutes with Niang. 88 minutes with Crowder.

He's playing with talent. Stop with that Udoh scapegoating.

True. and he is playing pretty well. At least in comparison to rubio.

 

[sahlensguy]

That last possession we get a very wide open 3 from crowder who had been hot from 3 all night and it was just a little long. We get the offensive rebound and get a pretty wide open 3 from ingles who just misses (he seems off lately). We get the offensive rebound again and crowder has a look at a 3 (would have been pretty contested though) and passes to Exum who has rose running at him and rose makes a nice block on Exums attempt (god what a game from rose). Exum would have had a very wide open three if he would have pump faked and let rose fly by before taking the shot. Hard to fault him though cause time was running down and its hard to know exactly how much time you have in a pressure situation like that. He did have time for a pump fake though.
Too bad. We had some very nice looks on that last possession.

I don't know why Rudy was in on that possession when we were down by three. I thought Niang would have been better in that situation. But we did get those good looks, so it didn't really matter.

 

[fishonjazz]

I don't know why Rudy was in on that possession when we were down by three. I thought Niang would have been better in that situation. But we did get those good looks, so it didn't really matter.

For offensive rebounds im guessing.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don't know why Rudy was in on that possession when we were down by three. I thought Niang would have been better in that situation. But we did get those good looks, so it didn't really matter.

He sets great picks and can help with offensive rebounding and kick outs.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

True. and he is playing pretty well. At least in comparison to rubio.

I really don't get why people think Exum is playing well. He is certainly isnt playing bad, but right now he is strictly a change of pace guard.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Niko had another great game last night. 10-15 from the field for 26 points along with 10 rebounds.

Niang is better than Niko... and he's on our roster. I'm only kind of kidding. Niang needs 20-25 minutes a night... I need to see it. Last night Favs made sense.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I really don't get why people think Exum is playing well. He is certainly isnt playing bad, but right now he is strictly a change of pace guard.

If you mean change of pace being a change from Ricky is playing like trash on offense and Exum is playing at an acceptable nba average then I agree. Being "strictly a change of pace guard" is a really vague description that doesn't give any value and kind of demeans what he is doing. Like was Manu a change of pace guard? It's like calling Ricky just a "game manager".

When one player is playing like hot garbage and the guy behind him is playing okay... then some will naturally want the okay player to get more minutes. Dante has been consistently better than Ricky this year... it's that simple. Long term he has more potential. Not saying we make the move but it isn't hard to see.