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Kirelenko in Trade talks!!!!!!!!!!!!!

write4u said:
Why do you doubt it. Just the draft alone, if you took a consensus from this board, the Jazz would've gotten better players over the last ten years.

More than most thought that the Maynor and Brewer dumps were just that. And Matthews, well sure, it was too high to match, but if we had been more proactive before the Portland offer, we probably could've signed Matthews for a reasonable figure. We didn't even make an offer to Korver. So if Hayward doesn't pan out, that's also going to be egg in our face. And now the AK debacle. This is all in the last year since Greg took over. What a Greg-hole!
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If you honestly believe that some random anonymous message board poster has the basketball knowledge, the business knowledge, the personnel knowledge, the league connections, the agent connections, etc etc etc to run an NBA franchise, even just personnel decisions, then I don't know what to tell you. Just admit you are being hyperbolic and lets move on.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Welcome to the Jazz, underachieving, lazy, fat-*** 3rd string PF.

This is retarded and Locke needs to go back to elementary school to learn math. How the 2nd year doesn't enter into the financial equation is somewhere between retarded and devious.
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really? the jazz have commited to keep their spending high, at a just-under-the-LT level, right? to do that they need to either,

1) trade AK for someone with a longer contract, or
2) re-sign AK or one of their other FAs to a bird-rights deal

would AK even commit to re-signing with the jazz? you want them to spend big money to re-sign Price?
 
Its not like the real world is like some sort of fantasy draft man. Aside from just basketball reasons in personal decisions there are bound to be endless political veins involved with each and every move. Like which team are we competing with? Which agent does this player have? Do you think this player's personality is compatible with the core of our team? What's their league reputation? Are we trying to make an allies with a team (as we've done with Philly and Chicago) or are we trying to screw with them (Portland vs Jazz)? Who will Sloan like? Who will the fans like? They're running a business, you know, not just a fantasy league. All little things like that matter. We just see the operation from the periphery.. we're not running the damn thing.
 
Yes, I know all that. I've been following the team closely for 15 years. No I don't know all the inside stuff, but I know enough to see that they've made a lot of crappy player personnal moves in the years I've been watching, and not just in building the team but in managing the players and their playing time. Of course, the latter is on Jerry. One thing I've learned in my older age is that no one is God, no one knows everything, and everyone makes mistakes.
 
Yet the collective minds of this very special message board possess the ultimate knowledge of how to run ****. Its just fun to pretend like we know would work, and even if these ideas would, theres just a billion things going into everything... we couldn't just snap a finger and get it done. We live in a Jazz state of mind... there would be 31 other teams to contend with
 
Sirkickyass said:
For the record, every person who supported the Millers on the basis of "they really opened their wallets" when they let Boozer, Korver, Brewer, Matthews, and Maynor go has to immediately eat crow if they give AK away.
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uh, didn't they replace those guys with new players who will be paid just about the same amount? (jefferson, bell, hayward, watson, elson...) and if they do this trade, they will be extending a sizable chunk of Kirilenko's contract out another year. how else were they going to do that? maybe some other better trade is going to come along. who knows. if it didn't, is there any guarantee that AK would even re-sign with the jazz?
 
write4u said:
Why do you doubt it. Just the draft alone, if you took a consensus from this board, the Jazz would've gotten better players over the last ten years.

More than most thought that the Maynor and Brewer dumps were just that. And Matthews, well sure, it was too high to match, but if we had been more proactive before the Portland offer, we probably could've signed Matthews for a reasonable figure. We didn't even make an offer to Korver. So if Hayward doesn't pan out, that's also going to be egg in our face. And now the AK debacle. This is all in the last year since Greg took over. What a Greg-hole!
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Did you also know KOC had been trying to pry away Jefferson from Minnesota for 1+ years? In all likelihood, Minny wanted another asset and that had been holding up a deal. Jazz certainly weren't parting with the lottery pick and Minny probably wasn't willing to accept a late 1st-rounder. So what did KOC do? He traded away Brewer, who the Jazz probably weren't going to re-sign (remember, talks with his agent went nowhere in the pre-season) and got a mid first-rounder. And then he was able to complete the Jefferson deal. Maynor/Harpring is understandable. A minor asset given up to save $10M. Financials play a part in all but a few organizations (like the Yankees, Lakers, Blazers, etc.).

As fans, we see things in a vacuum. Why did the Jazz draft Hayward and not the 5th or 6th best PF? Because KOC knew the Jefferson deal was in the works. As for being pro-active with Matthews, that's just hindsight. Had we offered him a $30M/5 yr contract, everyone on this board would be screaming for KOC's head saying he had overpaid. That no undrafted player with 1/2 yr. starting experience deserved such an exorbitant deal. And Korver? I applaud the move to let him leave. Paying MLE for a one-trick pony is too much. We ain't gonna miss Korver's 1.2 made 3's per game. He was acquired as much for his FT shooting prowess as his 3-pt shooting. And his FT% had gone way down over the past 2 seasons.
 
This would be a huge difference from last year. knowing if this team will get it right is just a guess at this point. i believe as long as we have dwill we will be fine but maybe something fresh, a totally different jazz team is the best bet, dunno, and cant say none of us do either. our jazz team has been so consistent lately possibly because of the consistency in the line up. we have known what to expect this last few seasons, but im totally down for trying something new. if we know we can make playoffs why not try to switch it up and see if we can get a new spark.
 
AK47, based on his unique skills and the size of his expiring deal, is worth more than Boris Diaw and maybe the thrown-in of Quinton Ross. With Millsap and Jefferson, the Jazz have no need for Diaw. Trading AK also only leaves CJ Miles and Gordon Hayward at the Small Forward position. Q-Ross becomes another SF, but he has zero offensive game (think Ronnie Brewer with an even worse jump shot), and his defensive expertise is highly exaggerated. The ability to trade AK's expiring contract will still be there after the season starts and the offer might be better closer to the trade deadline or the team might realize that AK is still a key piece to Utah's success. The team's longest tenured player and best defender is worth more than an unneeded PF and a 3rd string SF. If Utah was getting Gerald Wallace from Charlotte or even a combination of Diaw and Terrence Williams (who has greater potential than Ross and becomes unnecessary with the arrival of Carmelo), I would probably think differently. Somehow New Jersey and Carmelo have figured out how to make this an almost one-sided deal for NJ, and make Denver and Utah worse. At least get some draft picks too!
 
NUMBERICA said:
Sirkickyass has said everything and more that I want to say/reiterate. But I want to echo and add to what he said and Pearl said about finances. 1320 is reporting the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM amount the Jazz could get, which would mean a record-level payout to non-LT payers for 2011 but also assumes there's a lockout for the 2011-2012 season. The reality is that the Jazz will be taking back more salary than just Diaw, the payout won't be that high AND THAT THERE'S ANOTHER YEAR OF DIAW'S SALARY, in addition to the fact that it likely makes the Jazz LESS flexible in the following year, not more. If Diaw himself was an expiring this would be a different conversation. But we don't know what impact that $9 million is going to have next year.

This whole thing stinks, top (Millers) to bottom (Locke). 1320 is nothing but a propagandha machine.

I have two hopes;
1) That this falls apart, or
2) That the Jazz have REALLY done their homework on this one and KNOW something the dissenters (most of us) don't.
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It's my understanding that Diaw has a player's option for next season. How likely is he to just decline the option and work out a long-term deal with someone as an UFA?

This is a GREAT financial move by the Jazz. Yea, it hurts IF AK plays like he did in 2004. But we've been counting on that for 5 years now and for 5 years he's disappointed, either through injury or uninspired play.

Getting Diaw shores up a weak position for the Jazz. While Okur heals, Millsap/Diaw can man the 4 and allow Jefferson to play all his minutes at the 5. And that means we only see Elson/Fesenko for 12 mins/per.

Hayward has obviously impressed the Jazz brass. I expect him to average 20 mins/per, similar to the rookie seasons for Pavlovic and Millsap. And we haven't even mentioned Evans. Reports out of the player scrimmages are that Deron and the rest are super impressed. Evans could be a breakout player for Utah just like Paul was as a rookie.

Give CJ 30 mins/per, Hayward 20, Evans 10 mins, Raja 25. And I fully expect Watson to get 20 mins/per. Jerry will play a 2 PG offense some of the time, just like he did woth Deron and Maynor. All of a sudden, you have a logjam starting to develop.

So the Jazz get Diaw and are probably about the same as they would have been with AK. But, the Jazz may very well be able to get under the luxury tax threshold. If not, they get very, very close. So let's just say they get rid of AK's $17.2M and take back $10M in return (Diaw + Ross). That $14M+ in salary/tax savings.

Then, they either have Diaw's expiring next season, or Boris declines his option in order to sign as a FA with someone else (similar to Boozer's situation 2 summers ago).
 
Don't do it KOC. AK is an integral part of this team and you might as well blow it up to trade him for a scrub like Diaw. THERE ARE NO BIG FREE AGENTS COMING TO THE JAZZ NEXT YEAR REGARDLESS OF CAP SPACE. We more or less have to go to war with what we got, and hope Tomic becomes something. That is the optimal Jazz future, for better or worse.
 
Sounds like Denver is still looking for a better deal with the Bulls.

Thought this was a done deal :cool:


Come on Denver don't less us down
 
Here is what I don't get. How can Charlotte give up much overpaid average player like Diaw and end up with an all star guard in Harris? Diaw's 2 year overpaid contract relative to his ability makes him a kind of player you dump for nothing, and throw some picks to just get rid of his salary. To get an all star guy of Harris' caliber for that seems outrageous. AK is a better player than Boris, and he is on the last year of contract, which makes him overall a lot more valuable. If anything, we should be getting Harris out of this deal. Why are Bobcats even in this trade? If Denver wants AK47 and Favors for Melo, how can Bobcats just come in, dump crappy contract and get an all star in return? Something doesn't make sense here.
 
The more I think about it, the more I am unable to understand why Charlotte is even in this deal? Harris and Diaw make about the same amount this year. Why not for Utah to just take on Harris? Why do we need to make that extra Harris/Diaw swap and give Bobcats an all star for garbage when we can just get that all star ourselves? Diaw/Harris salaries are the same. Denver wants AK47. Why not just take Harris and forget about Diaw? What am I missing here?
 
Borat said:
The more I think about it, the more I am unable to understand why Charlotte is even in this deal? Harris and Diaw make about the same amount this year. Why not for Utah to just take on Harris? Why do we need to make that extra Harris/Diaw swap and give Bobcats an all star for garbage when we can just get that all star ourselves? Diaw/Harris salaries are the same. Denver wants AK47. Why not just take Harris and forget about Diaw? What am I missing here?
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Boris Diaw has this year under contract and a player option for next year. Harris has this year and two more. Also there is the playing time issue. Either Deron or Harris would have to play a lot of 2.
 
If Diaw has a player option next year, any chance Jazz force him to opt out. That way Jazz save big bucks this year and don't have his nine mil on the the payroll next year. A win win for KOC.
 
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