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Government to shut down at Midnight

Bulletproof said:
So Trump shuts the government down only to agree to the terms that were offered before the shutdown.

This man knows how to make a deal.
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Yeah, there is pretty much not a single way this can be construed as a win by him or the Rs.
 
Stoked said:
Yeah, there is pretty much not a single way this can be construed as a win by him or the Rs.
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My money is on he "gets fixated" on something else and signs whatever comes by his desk as quietly as possible
 
So what exactly did trump gain from all this? Certainly not higher approval numbers or Ann coulter’s love.







Ouch! Well, maybe we can do this all again in 3 weeks?! So much winning! LMFAO
 
tedbundy said:
You have no idea how government contracts work. Backpay for federal contractors... They won't get paid. BS. They get paid 100%. My Job is government contracting. They get paid to be here or to sit in their offices or homes. The law dictates that they get paid when the government shuts down. This is just false. The biggest drain is the fact that government employees aren't spending as much.

The federal acquisition regulations (FAR) lay out the foundation for all of the non-government employees. The money spent has already been obligated and committed. The funding was there to start the programs and the contracts. Therefore, the government has already (Spent) the money. What you are saying is not factual.
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It's always nice having someone in the know explain how things work. Thank you.
 
I'm annoyed by so the conservatives bashing Trump and calling him a coward and a wimp for backing down on this.
I'm also annoyed by the Democrats saying that they "won" and that they beat Trump.

I'm very proud of Trump for giving in and getting the government up and running again.
That's the right thing to do. It's not cowardly. It doesn't make you a wimp to compromise or give in and not get your way.

To me it's way worse to just be stubborn and dig your heels in no matter what. It's way worse to just want to get your way no matter what and no matter who it hurts.

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fishonjazz said:
I'm annoyed by so the conservatives bashing Trump and calling him a coward and a wimp for backing down on this.
I'm also annoyed by the Democrats saying that they "won" and that they beat Trump.

I'm very proud of Trump for giving in and getting the government up and running again.
That's the right thing to do. It's not cowardly. It doesn't make you a wimp to compromise or give in and not get your way.

To me it's way worse to just be stubborn and dig your heels in no matter what. It's way worse to just want to get your way no matter what and no matter who it hurts.

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I think we need to clarify a few things:

* Trump shut down the government because he never had enough votes in congress to pass his wall funding. This tactic for any issue should never be used. If presidents don’t have the votes in Congress, they need to either come up with a better plan or move onto something else. That’s how democracy works. But shutting down the government and using federal workers as pawns to strongarm votes should never be done.

* Most Americans don’t want the wall. So by Pelosi and the democrats fighting against this wasteful spending, they’re essentially fighting for the majority of Americans. Democrats are the party of fiscal responsibility and have been for quite some time now.

* Trump didn’t cave because he suddenly felt something for workers. He caved because democrats weren’t going to budge (the plan that democrats proposed received more votes in the republican controlled senate than the republican plan) and his poll numbers were taking a hit.

So yes, Pelosi and the democrats won. They fought for the democratic process and the wishes of most Americans. Trump lost. You say it’s worse to dig in and be stubborn. But sometimes fighting for democracy requires that. Since trump didn’t have the votes, he really needed to move on and not keep the government shut down. Had he won, what’s to stop him from using the exact same tactic to pass any other piece of legislation?

Maybe this will be a lesson for all politicians but especially for republicans (they’re responsible for the last several shutdowns) to not use federal workers as pawns to promote their unpopular agendas?
 
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The Thriller said:
I think we need to clarify a few things:

* Trump shut down the government because he never had enough votes in congress to pass his wall funding. This tactic for any issue should never be used. If presidents don’t have the votes in Congress, they need to either come up with a better plan or move onto something else. That’s how democracy works. But shutting down the government and using federal workers as pawns to strongarm votes should never be done.

* Most Americans don’t want the wall. So by Pelosi and the democrats fighting against this wasteful spending, they’re essentially fighting for the majority of Americans. Democrats are the party of fiscal responsibility and have been for quite some time now.

* Trump didn’t cave because he suddenly felt something for workers. He caved because democrats weren’t going to budge (the plan that democrats proposed received more votes in the republican controlled senate than the republican plan) and his poll numbers were taking a hit.

So yes, Pelosi and the democrats won. They fought for the democratic process and the wishes of most Americans. Trump lost. You say it’s worse to dig in and be stubborn. But sometimes fighting for democracy requires that. Since trump didn’t have the votes, he really needed to move on and not keep the government shut down. Had he won, what’s to stop him from using the exact same tactic to pass any other piece of legislation?

Maybe this will be a lesson for all politicians but especially for republicans (they’re responsible for the last several shutdowns) to not use federal workers as pawns to promote their unpopular agendas?
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You are right about the shutdown should have never happened in the first place.

I stand by my stance that it's preferable that Trump gave in rather than continued hold out to try to get what he wanted.


Do you wish he would have not have gave in and continued to keep the government shutdown? If so, why?

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fishonjazz said:
You are right about the shutdown should have never happened in the first place.

I stand by my stance that it's preferable that Trump gave in rather than continued hold out to try to get what he wanted.


Do you wish he would have not have gave in and continued to keep the government shutdown? If so, why?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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Of course it's preferable that he finally gave in, but saying you are 'proud of him' for eventually relenting makes about as much sense as being proud of a bank robber for not shooting his hostages. Trump put himself (and the hundreds of thousands of furloughed workers) in this position, he shouldn't get any credit for getting out of it.
 
fishonjazz said:
Do you wish he would have not have gave in and continued to keep the government shutdown?
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I know you're directing this question to @The Thriller, but how could the president have continued the shutdown given the chaos at LaGuardia airport yesterday, with every indication that situation would only get worse, and repeat at other airports? This situation likely caused him to act as much as any handwriting on the wall in the legislature that @The Thriller described. He would have continued if it was at all possible, IMO. He could not continue without crippling air traffic. It is preferable that he "caved", but he painted himself into that corner, and even then, when he announced the end of the shutdown, he continued to go off prompter and riff about women with tape over their mouth, etc., and threatening to shut it down again in three weeks...
 
fishonjazz said:
You are right about the shutdown should have never happened in the first place.

I stand by my stance that it's preferable that Trump gave in rather than continued hold out to try to get what he wanted.


Do you wish he would have not have gave in and continued to keep the government shutdown? If so, why?

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No, I would not have preferred for him to keep the government shut down. But I thought I answered that in the previous post where I stated that I don't think government shutdowns should be used as a strongarm tactic to further a president's political agenda.

But once Trump went down that path to shutting down the government to appease natists Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter? Sorry, there was only one desirable outcome for me, his complete and utter defeat (or caving in). Seeing nativists insult him is just gravy for me. Maybe he should like... Stop paying attention to the ********* people in the country?

Personally, I'd like to see Republicans and Democrats work to:
  • Legalize DREAMers
  • Streamline the citizenship and work visa process
  • Make employers pay harsher penalties for employing illegally
  • End the disastrous war on drugs
  • Decriminalize marijuana
  • Work to help stabilize Latin America (our backyard)
Of course, achieving these objectives is something far beyond Trump and this Congress's capability. So I'd like to see them settle for just legalizing DREAMers. But even that I feel is beyond the scope of the GOP right now. Gerrymandering and catering to racists has made the Republican caucuses bloodbaths for anyone rational or fact driven.
 
Red said:
I know you're directing this question to @The Thriller, but how could the president have continued the shutdown given the chaos at LaGuardia airport yesterday, with every indication that situation would only get worse, and repeat at other airports? This situation likely caused him to act as much as any handwriting on the wall in the legislature that @The Thriller described. He would have continued if it was at all possible, IMO. He could not continue without crippling air traffic. It is preferable that he "caved", but he painted himself into that corner, and even then, when he announced the end of the shutdown, he continued to go off prompter and riff about women with tape over their mouth, etc., and threatening to shut it down again in three weeks...
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Exactly. People are acting like this is just a thing that happened. No, Trumplethinskin caused this himself.
 
gandalfe said:
Exactly. People are acting like this is just a thing that happened. No, Trumplethinskin caused this himself.
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Yep. Trump could have ignored Coulter and Limbaugh and asked Mitch to bring the CR passed in the House to be brought to a vote in the Senate. He could've avoided the entire shutdown. and to his nativist critics? He could've blamed Congressional republicans for not wanting to #MAGA enough with him. Instead, he chose to shutdown the government, which in the end caused even his supporters to turn against him. He gained nothing. Moderates are pissed for him shutting it down. The nativists are pissed for him failing to get the wall funding. And liberals are laughing all the way for his "leadership."

When you have no real political ideology or intelligence, this is what happens.

And let's not think for a second that our enemies aren't enjoying this. We don't think Putin, Kim, etc don't realize that our president has no original thoughts or feelings beyond his own personal greed? Our enemies see how he can be played and will continue to play him like a fiddle. Sadly, our allies can see this too. America cannot lead when our leader is a shallow self-centered reality tv star.
 
Donald Trump is in this so far above his head he’s like Danny DeVito in the Lakers’ locker room. To extend the metaphor, Nancy Pelosi is LeBron, and Chuck Schumer is, uh, whoever their second-best player is these days. But the two of them, Pelosi in particular, have just made the president of the United States look like 1) a fool and 2) a moral eunuch, which you might say shouldn’t be hard, because he is obviously both of those things, but he is the president and he has the bully pulpit and all that, along with a propaganda network that every night tells millions of Americans that he farts roses, so actually it is kind of hard, what they did.
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https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-folds-ends-shutdown-and-humiliates-himself-in-rose-garden
 
Zombie said:
Of course it's preferable that he finally gave in, but saying you are 'proud of him' for eventually relenting makes about as much sense as being proud of a bank robber for not shooting his hostages. Trump put himself (and the hundreds of thousands of furloughed workers) in this position, he shouldn't get any credit for getting out of it.
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But his core Republicans is extremely upset at him and calling him a wuss and a coward etc etc.
So good on him for giving in and going against the wishes of his supporters.

I'm as big a hater of Trump as anyone and don't want the wall. I'm glad he gave in despite what his supporters wanted.

It's not like I'm saying great job Trump, you kick ***!
I just figured he would never give in no matter what. He surprised me and I'm thankful for that.

Once the government shutdown began he was in a lose lose situation from that point on I guess. Don't give in and piss off all the government workers and anti wall folks and trump haters. Or give in and piss off all his supporters and get gloated at and made fun of by his haters and anti wall folks.

I'm glad he made the decision to give in.

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Red said:
I know you're directing this question to @The Thriller, but how could the president have continued the shutdown given the chaos at LaGuardia airport yesterday, with every indication that situation would only get worse, and repeat at other airports? This situation likely caused him to act as much as any handwriting on the wall in the legislature that @The Thriller described. He would have continued if it was at all possible, IMO. He could not continue without crippling air traffic. It is preferable that he "caved", but he painted himself into that corner, and even then, when he announced the end of the shutdown, he continued to go off prompter and riff about women with tape over their mouth, etc., and threatening to shut it down again in three weeks...
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I figured trumps childish nature would just be like **** the airports, I want my wall.

Also, how could the Democrats have continued the shutdown given the chaos at LaGuardia airport yesterday, with every indication that situation would only get worse, and repeat at other airports?
Maybe the Democrats should have given in to save that situation. But they didn't. Someone had to. I'm glad someone did.

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gandalfe said:
Exactly. People are acting like this is just a thing that happened. No, Trumplethinskin caused this himself.
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No one is acting like this is a thing that just happened.
Conservatives are bashing Trump for caving and for being a coward.
Democrats are bashing Trump for caving and losing to them.

Everyone from both sides realizes the shutdown is due to Trump and everyone from both sides are now attacking him for giving in.

I'm glad he gave in. I'm not going to attack him for giving in like everyone else is. I attacked him plenty for shutting down the government in the first place for the stupid wall.


Also, I had heard there was an option for him to fund his wall by declaring an emergency or something. Yet he didn't do that iirc. I'm glad about that too.


Don't worry, I still hate him and you won't see speak positively of the man in the future unless he does something that I think warrants it, which I highly doubt he will.

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fishonjazz said:
I figured trumps childish nature would just be like **** the airports, I want my wall.

Also, how could the Democrats have continued the shutdown given the chaos at LaGuardia airport yesterday, with every indication that situation would only get worse, and repeat at other airports?
Maybe the Democrats should have given in to save that situation. But they didn't. Someone had to. I'm glad someone did.

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Lol. This is some head *** **** man. The reason why has been outlined many times in this thread already. If the Democrats gave in then ANY time Trump (or another president) can't get what they want passed legislatively they'd know all they have to do is shut down the government and voila. That doesn't sound a whole lot like a healthy democratic process to me.
 
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