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No lunch for Huckabee, Is it the same?

1. Siro, i guess you have not visited Europe at all? Or really like the ghetto culture the migrants provide at touristy places in Paris, Firenze, Nice etc. In your view i am certainly rascist if i do not want that something like this turns it some kind of muslim festival (forced by muslims due the "borders should open for everybody") in the near future. Russian occupations was already bad enough.


Ever been to America? Plenty of ghettos and poverty here in places where the native population has lived here for hundreds of years. Especially in areas that voted for Trump! Those are some of the most impoverished and anti-immigrant areas in the nation. So I’m unsure of where the idea that immigrants result in ghettos and poverty comes from. Yeah sure, the first generation may struggle to adapt. But by the second and third generation they’re assimilated and contributing to society just like anyone else.

Besides, it’s a proven fact, and facts should matter, immigrants are the least likely population to commit crime.

Truly, I think immigrants are being scapegoated by politicians with poor ideas and policies but know that they can stoke the fear of native populations in order to win support. Exploiting the anger of nationalism is a terrific way to stay in power. It’s proven time and time again to be disastrous for human rights though.
 
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Fine, go ahead and decide when science fits and should be trusted, and when you can throw it away.

Science always fits and always should be trusted. However, there is no scientific definition of race (or even species, for that matter). Scientifically, there is only how closely related different populations are.
 
So Obama was a hero to the left and a coward to the right when he suggested diplomacy. 8 years later trump is a coward to the left and a hero to the right for suggesting diplomacy.

Who on the left is calling Trump a coward for suggesting diplomacy? All I read is that he is a bully for disregarding diplomacy.

Oh but they say there are subtle differences that a sophisticated mind can see and that's what makes it an outrage if Bush bombs wedding parties in Yemen but sad and necessary when Obama bombs wedding parties.

The progressives I read called it an outrage when Obama bombed wedding parties.

If you are really trying to play the "both sides" card, you should at least find examples where it fits. This post was just embarrassing.
 
Who on the left is calling Trump a coward for suggesting diplomacy? All I read is that he is a bully for disregarding diplomacy.



The progressives I read called it an outrage when Obama bombed wedding parties.

If you are really trying to play the "both sides" card, you should at least find examples where it fits. This post was just embarrassing.

You prove exactly what I’ve been saying here. There’s a large segment of our population that has been brainwashed to believe the Fox News narrative aka alt facts aka ********.

The right has been lying about Obama worship for a decade now. They create strawmen and when you knock them down they accuse you of malice. It’s an endless cycle.

Colbert described it pretty well here with his “Truthiness” episode. Ever seen it?

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/63ite2/the-colbert-report-the-word---truthiness
 
We can go back and forth all day, but in my opinion it's not about politics right now, it's about Trump; and the debasement of our societal norms that he has fostered/accelerated. He sets a terrible precedent, far beyond the behavior of any President before him. It's not refreshing, it's not telling it like it is. A American President should at least endeavor to stay above the fray of the worst of behavior, but Trump can't help but be at the very bottom of the pit shoveling the ****. He's a very bad person. And he is ****ing crazy. You cannot equate him with any American politician that has come before him. My brothers, we shouldn't argue politics regarding Trump, we should argue sanity.
 
We can go back and forth all day, but in my opinion it's not about politics right now, it's about Trump; and the debasement of our societal norms that he has fostered/accelerated. He sets a terrible precedent, far beyond the behavior of any President before him. It's not refreshing, it's not telling it like it is. A American President should at least endeavor to stay above the fray of the worst of behavior, but Trump can't help but be at the very bottom of the pit shoveling the ****. He's a very bad person. And he is ****ing crazy. You cannot equate him with any American politician that has come before him. My brothers, we shouldn't argue politics regarding Trump, we should argue sanity.
This.

There should be no partisanship when it comes to trump. Republicans, democrats, and everyone else should be against him. He isn't the same as Clinton, Obama, bush, Reagan, etc etc. He is much much worse than all of them.
 
Besides, it’s a proven fact, and facts should matter, immigrants are the least likely population to commit crime.
I was also reading about a study that showed the the children of immigrants generally outperform those whose families have been here for generations.
 
You're completely right. I have no idea why they changed, but since they are both religious, I'm guessing it was for political reasons - but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say I have no idea why they changed. I don't. I used that as an example cause he called Trump a rapist. I'm assuming he thinks Trump is a rapist because he bragged about grabbing them by the ***** back in, what, 2005? So same concept could be applied there.
I like Obama. I don't care for Hillary. I understand people change in politics and I don't get outraged by politicians who do. I roll my eyes at people who wave other's changes (in whatever the case) in their face. People change. Society changes. We evolve.
It's crazy how much I've changed, in my personal life, over the last 10 years. I used to be super religious and believed in what my religion taught. I believed in religion because I found refuge in it and I had, let's just say, a rough childhood.
I remember one time, back in 2007 I took a video game back to Blockbuster because it had gay characters in it. I actually told the guy at the counter that's the reason I was taking it back because I didn't support it. I absolutely cringe thinking about that. I was ignorant, naive, and convicted, and cultured.
I'm glad of all of my life experiences and the opportunity for growth they've given me. I'm proud of how I've changed and who I am. I'm still changing and forever want to keep changing. I certainly don't have all the right answers. One of my favorite things about this board is how much posters have influenced me and changed my perspectives and ideologies.

I would say donnie may have changed.. but there's so much dirtbaggage it's just hard for me to consider it. From adultry while his wife was pregnant, dirty deals to cover that up, the nearly verified Russian pee incidents, MULTIPLE allegations from different women, and knowing exactly what he was doing with the zero tolerance policy, the cards just aren't there for a full house.

Either way, if the case is made for a baker to deny business over homosexuality, the case should certainly be made for a restaurant to deny the spokesperson for an administration doing something far more wrong... sure, far more evil, than same sex love.
 
I would say donnie may have changed.. but there's so much dirtbaggage it's just hard for me to consider it. From adultry while his wife was pregnant, dirty deals to cover that up, the nearly verified Russian pee incidents, MULTIPLE allegations from different women, and knowing exactly what he was doing with the zero tolerance policy, the cards just aren't there for a full house.

Either way, if the case is made for a baker to deny business over homosexuality, the case should certainly be made for a restaurant to deny the spokesperson for an administration doing something far more wrong... sure, far more evil, than same sex love.
Good post.
I agree with pretty much everything you say.

I do think mistreating people for political reasons is a slippery slope too. Where do you start and draw the line? So many politicians have their scandles, lie, cheat, etc. It's going to turn into the norm, imo and then what?

I hope the next president is one we all want and need to mend the divide in the country. It's sad seeing it like this. I love the US.
 
Where you draw the line has to live with each person. There's not a blanket statement that's going to apply, and it shouldn't be law. If the public decides there needs to be a line, I'd go for something along the lines of you must [serve, help, service.. whatever] this person, regardless of[any discriminatory] class if what you're serving is an essential service, can not reasonably be obtained elsewhere.

But I'd strongly oppose even that verbiage.

I'm not sure where I, personally, draw the line. I work in healthcare, my "customer" is clinical staff. Not all clinical staff are good people. I know my work helps saves my healthcare network(and our patients) money, time, heartache, and other hardships. I'm not sure where I'd draw the line. I'm not sure if we found Hitler alive but needing medical attention I'd make my tools unusable for his care.

But if I was a lemonade vendor on the street? A pedicab? Uber driver? I can feel within me there's a sliding scale, pending how disturbed I am by X person. But I don't know how to quantify or express that.
 
A few observations.

1. As a general principle, I believe that if someone opens a 'public accommodation' business this implies an obligation not to discriminate against certain groups in the provision of goods/services.
2. There are exceptions to the above, but I don't believe that they involve benign, immutable characteristics, such as race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc. (Benign meaning that they are characteristics that have no implications for any second party, immutable meaning that they are inherent traits that are determined by birth or beyond a person's control.)
3. To the extent there are exceptions, I believe that they would entail non-benign, non-immutable, behavioral based characteristics, such as outward expression of ideas/beliefs that are dangerous, harmful, truly offensive, or that an owner/proprietor finds morally objectionable. For example, if a bunch of skinhead me-Nazis flouting swastikas enter a restaurant, I believe the owner is in his/her right to refuse them service.
4. For goods/services that are of a highly specialized/customized nature, I believe that owners/proprietors have more leeway to refuse service. For example, an attorney should not be compelled to take the case of someone he/she finds morally repugnant, say a neo-Nazi. I have mixed feelings about the cake case, but in the end, I believe that the baking of a cake like that IS a form of artistic expression and thus the baker shouldn't be compelled to put messages on the cake he/she finds morally objectionable. We can debate about whether homosexuality is immoral. IF, however, the gay couple was requesting an off-the-shelf cake, and the baker had refused to serve them, then I'd feel much differently.
5. I come down on the side that the owner should just have served Huckabee. However, to me, this comes under #3 above such that the owner should not be compelled to serve her. Shilling for a lying, proto authoritarian who is a purveyor of hate is neither a benign or immutable characteristic. Were it me, I'd still serve her.
6. We will save ourselves a lot of anxiety and stress if we accept that humans by their nature are inconsistent and that few people truly live by a set of consistent principles, other than the principle to seek advantage over others, privilege one's own interests and beliefs, and apply 'principles' on a case-by-case basis as is convenient. Thus we have on one hand the Evangelical Christians arguing that they should, on moral (pseudo) religious grounds, get refuse service and human dignity to others they find objectionable but on the other hand possessors of an over weaning persecution complex who would howl and cry to no end were they every to find themselves on the other side of the 'morally objectionable' discrimination.
7. I find it fascinating how in DC politicos and pundits put more value in 'civility' than in 'decency.' So the Red Hen will draw the ire among Republicans for an act of incivility, but the same Republicans will overlook over and over and over again acts of indecency by this Administration, such as separating children from parents as either an political ploy, a cynical sop to a political base, and/or out of sheer malice. I do agree that civility is important, and I'd like to see more of it, but more than that, I'd like to see more decency and people on both sides of the aisle ready to promote more decency and condemn indecency when it occurs.
 
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Ever been to America? Plenty of ghettos and poverty here in places where the native population has lived here for hundreds of years. Especially in areas that voted for Trump! Those are some of the most impoverished and anti-immigrant areas in the nation. So I’m unsure of where the idea that immigrants result in ghettos and poverty comes from. Yeah sure, the first generation may struggle to adapt. But by the second and third generation they’re assimilated and contributing to society just like anyone else.

Besides, it’s a proven fact, and facts should matter, immigrants are the least likely population to commit crime.

Truly, I think immigrants are being scapegoated by politicians with poor ideas and policies but know that they can stoke the fear of native populations in order to win support. Exploiting the anger of nationalism is a terrific way to stay in power. It’s proven time and time again to be disastrous for human rights though.

Thriller, do you mean, that it is mainly US government and people fault, that the relationship between USA and Mexico are not as good compared to relations between USA and Canada or USA and Japan?
From a foreigner point of view it seams, that US citizens in general do not care or are not afraid of either Canada or Japan, but dislike citizens from Mexico - no matter whether they come to USA legally or not. IMHO Mexico (its people) as neighbour certainly hasn't done anything on its side so that average US citizen would welcome them with benefits etc.
For comparison, my ex-collegue also won the working-visa lottery, stayed one year in San Antonio and had no problems finding work (IT related). However, he went back to Australia (and also found a job as truck driver in a mining region without any problems). Or is it exaggareted i.e if a skilled mexican wants to work in USA - can he/she have a working visa without any problems?
 
Ok, thanks for sharing. Clearly I disagree with you, and you disagree with me. It's not posturing, it's truth. I don't care if you agree with me. It's all about power, money, lies and both sides have been party to atrocities for years and it's all wrong. Go ahead and feel one party is more messed up than the other, I don't care, one of them is more in your face right now so it's understandable. Both parties platforms are like their facebook lives. They only show what they want you to see, or what they think will get them likes/attention/votes.

Posturing, bleh. You are posturing. You don't even live here, geez. Take your posturing and put it to use on some Canadian politics board. You don't even know me and pretend you can state I'm posturing. Why don't you take your false outrage and hit the road.

lmao ur salty cuz the party you helped vote in is filled with fascists and white supremacists. Shameful. Nothing the Thriller could ever say in this forum would match that level of shame.
 
If you have a few, you should listen to Joe Rogan's podcast with Dave Rubin. They do a great job dissecting the insanity of today's politics and people. I've only ever watched one video of Rubin before on YouTube and never listened to his show or read anything about him, but he seems pretty damn level headed and logical. From what he was saying with Rogan though, he gets attacked by people even if they don't know what they're attacking him for.

rogan is a ****ing idiot who pimps pseudoscience, rubin has been publicly and repeatedly owned by students in auditoriums.
 
Yea, it is. I think both sides are being idiots or worse, and yes Mr Orange definitely has created some separation, but I refuse to side with the lesser idiot because it's better than the blatant one in power now. I don't agree with either side at all, but because I don't side with you... "you helped rape and pillage, you took the children, you hate the people I profess to love!!! burn!!!"

A bit out there.

If that's the selling point to joining a group, it needs work. "We're not as bad as that bigot, rapist, murderer... so join us".
I'm not going to avoid Shere Khan, just to run into the arms of Kaa. (Kaa from the movie, not the books)

no one is saying join the democrats-- all we want is basically for you to admit what you did in this post, with less whining. Democrats are soulless, spineless bootlickers who dont dramatically help poor people. The republicans in power are fascists. There's a difference between the two. Also, the Democrats are not far left, nor "the Left" for that matter.
 
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