Thoughts on Trading Bogdanvic

[cowhide]

Geez guys want to trade away Bogey and we are 4-0. It is way too early to start about trading guys on the team. The only trade mention was the J. Grant out of Detroit but that isn't happening. People tend to underappreciate Bogey. I would rather wait until Gay is back before looking at trades.

 

[enchilada_style]

I’m ready to ride or die with the scrubs we have.


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[Nate505]

I get the idea of wanting to make a trade for that final elusive piece, but on the other hand so far if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[infection]

If we trade Bojan, what will two of my kids do?

 

[rjfan]

I'm totally ok with trading him (or other pieces that would be more of a heartbreak as of fanbase experience, including me myself like Clarkson or Ingles) in a move that actually would improve our team.

Just that I know this is a much harder thing to do than a bad one (either one that makes us worse, or a lateral move that costs us assets). It's pretty hard to picture what targets that would get us better on defense than it would make us worse on offense, especially when looking for guys that we actually might have a real shot at completing a trade.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Rule change on the whistle is to reduce the inflation on the scoreboard. Simple as that. Fans surely don't want to see low scoring games. But neither do that want to watch teams combine for over 300 points every night with nearly half of them scored from the free throw line. Silver won't flat out say “get rid of those ****ing point”. But he surely doesn't want to hear any complain about “soft” and “no defense” either.

It’s not what it was about at all. It was 100% gameflow, reducing game times, and eliminating something that everyone hated. It was not about points at all. And if it is to reduce points then you know what would become an even bigger premium? Guys who score efficiently without free throws… hmmmmm… anyone know where to find one of those guys?

 

[fishonjazz]

I don't think it makes you a malcontent to want to make the team better. This team is very good and has a chance as is, but that doesn't mean they are without issues. For the Jazz, the weakness is very obvious so I don't see the problem with wanting to address it. Honestly, the reluctant attitude towards moving Bogey makes me question why people are not confident in our ability to score without him. I feel incredibly confident in our scoring as long as Mitchell is playing. We've done that and I have no reason to believe we can't do it again. Defensively? I'm hopeful as a fan but I don't see the reasons for confidence.

Actually so far this year do you know what our biggest struggle has been? Shooting. Do you know what bogeys biggest strength is? Shooting.
Also jazz were one of the best defensive teams in the nba last season (#3 I believe) when we had worse defenders. What makes you think defense is such a big weakness for the jazz. iirc they were the best team in the entire league at defending the 3 ball and the best team at keeping teams off the free throw line. Inside they had a pretty good defender named gobert. (and now have whiteside as well in addition to some better perimeter defenders.)

 

[fishonjazz]

If he scored 30 points a night efficiently we’d still need more defense on this team. I wouldn’t want to trade him, but I’d still want to trade a scorer for a defender because defense is a need. It’s not a personal vendetta against Bogey. It’s an acknowledgment of the strengths and weaknesses of this team.

If we can get his equivalent now with a more valued skill set I don’t know why we should wait until the off-season.

Again, we were a top 3 defensive team LAST YEAR. This year we are even better.

 

[fishonjazz]

Over the last few seasons, scoring hasn't been an issue. Staying in front of a player has.

Actually most of the time staying in front of a player hasn't been an issue. Running guys off the three point line and into Rudy Gobert resulted in one of the best defenses in the nba last year.

 

[KqWIN]

Again, we were a top 3 defensive team LAST YEAR. This year we are even better.

And how did we do in the playoffs? I have zero concerns about the regular season defense.. If that was all that mattered, we wouldn't have had a historic defensive collapse against a team missing their best player. It wasn't just bad luck. The way we play in the regular season can easily be exploited by more talented teams. Rudy can only do so much when teams have time to gameplan.

I also have zero concerns about a 4 game shooting sample size. We shouldn't be basing anything off 4 games, come on now.

 

[fishonjazz]

JC would've been Clippers' second best scorer right now.

You dont know that. Maybe the reason that JC is such a good scorer is because he plays on the jazz. With players like bogey spacing the floor to give him wide open lanes into the paint.

 

[KqWIN]

I would also counter with saying that there is a reason why scoring hasn’t been an issue.

We have been elite without Bogey and without Conley on offense. The reason why it still wasn't an issue is because this team is freaking stacked with scorers and the system works.

 

[fishonjazz]

And how did we do in the playoffs? I have zero concerns about the regular season defense.. If that was all that mattered, we wouldn't have had a historic defensive collapse against a team missing their best player. It wasn't just bad luck. The way we play in the regular season can easily be exploited by more talented teams. Rudy can only do so much when teams have time to gameplan.

I also have zero concerns about a 4 game shooting sample size. We shouldn't be basing anything off 4 games, come on now.

Oh you didn't hear about the changes we made last off season. Now I see why you are confused. (by the way, Bogey was one of our best defenders in the clippers series )

 

[fishonjazz]

We have been elite without Bogey and without Conley on offense. The reason why it still wasn't an issue is because this team is freaking stacked with scorers and the system works.

Bogey has missed zero games since he has been on the jazz. Jazz havent been elite without bogey offensively as they have never been without bogey.

 

[KqWIN]

Bogey has missed zero games since he has been on the jazz. Jazz havent been elite without bogey offensively as they have never been without bogey.

I seriously cannot tell if you're joking or not.

If you think the changes that we made in the offseason are good enough to address a historically awful defense, to each their own. I think we need more than 35 year old Rudy Gay as the backup PF.

 

[fishonjazz]

And how did we do in the playoffs? I have zero concerns about the regular season defense.. If that was all that mattered, we wouldn't have had a historic defensive collapse against a team missing their best player. It wasn't just bad luck. The way we play in the regular season can easily be exploited by more talented teams. Rudy can only do so much when teams have time to gameplan.

I also have zero concerns about a 4 game shooting sample size. We shouldn't be basing anything off 4 games, come on now.

Your concerns about our offense might increase if bogey weren't around. He is a big part of why the offense is elite. A few years back we were primarily defensive team. Yet the championships didn't come rolling in. Last year we were elite on offense and defense (this a good thing btw) but were exploited in a round of the playoffs by small ball while we were banged up (we were undefeated in the playoffs last year when healthy and had a 2-0 lead on the clippers when they had kahwi playing partly due to bogeys defense on kahwi). Then this off season we made some changes to help our playoff defense not get exploited. Everyone should be happy at this point. we should still have an elite offense and defense (a good thing remember) and now our defense should be better in the playoffs as well (this is also a good thing)

 

[fishonjazz]

I seriously cannot tell if you're joking or not.

If you think the changes that we made in the offseason are good enough to address a historically awful defense, to each their own. I think we need more than 35 year old Rudy Gay as the backup PF.

Historically awful defense? #3 out of like 30 teams isn't historically awful bro.
What are you talking about anyway? My post was in response to you talking about us being elite OFFENSIVELY without bogey. I simply said that we have never been without bogey so its literally impossible for us to have been elite without him. Strange that you brought up defense when you started talking about the offense in relation to bogey and that is also what I addressed.

 

[KqWIN]

Historically awful defense? #3 out of like 30 teams isn't historically awful bro.
What are you talking about anyway? My post was in response to you talking about us being elite OFFENSIVELY without bogey. I simply said that we have never been without bogey so its literally impossible for us to have been elite without him.

When I talk about the collapse I'm talking about the playoffs where we got grilled against a team without their best player, not the RS. What we did in the RS had zero meaning when it came to playing the Clippers. The Clippers aren't the only team that can exploit us and going small isn't the only way to do it. If you won the championship by winning the RS my thoughts would be different, but that is not how the NBA works. The Jazz have defensive weaknesses that can be covered by Gobert during the RS but it's impossible for Gobert or anyone to keep that in the playoffs when opposing teams can plan for it.

Bogey did not play in the DEN series and we were elite offensively that series. So no, the confidence I have in our offense did not change at all when he was out. Mitchell, Conley, Bogey, Clarkson, and Ingles are the 5 players that I would consider scorers and ball handlers. If one of them is out, the others would pick up for them. Since Clarkson was acquired the Jazz are 44-16 and have a 118 Ortg when one of those 5 are out. When all 5 are playing the Jazz are 34-20 and have a 116 Ortg. This is what gives me confidence in our ability to score if we were to move a scorer/ball handler.

The offense has carried through to the playoffs. We went through the DEN series without Bogey and the LAC without Conley. In both instances we had and Ortg that would have been first in the league. Unlike the defense, I don't think we have underlying weaknesses that can be exposed during the playoffs and that's proven to be true. Like I said before, it doesn't have to be Bogey. I have confidence in our offense to score without anyone besides Mitchell out. My thoughts aren't that we have to trade Bogey because he's bad or whatever. It's that we can afford to move some offense for some defense.

 

[jom2003]

It’s not what it was about at all. It was 100% gameflow, reducing game times, and eliminating something that everyone hated. It was not about points at all. And if it is to reduce points then you know what would become an even bigger premium? Guys who score efficiently without free throws… hmmmmm… anyone know where to find one of those guys?

it is both. free throw is the easiest way to score points in basketball, period. Taking that away will result in less points scored in a basketball game. just look up the numbers. stats don't lie. highest scoring games are also the ones with the highest number of free throws. reducing free throws would help the gameflow, yes. but they don't just take away free throws without bearing in mind that points would also get reduced as a result.

 

[jom2003]

You dont know that. Maybe the reason that JC is such a good scorer is because he plays on the jazz. With players like bogey spacing the floor to give him wide open lanes into the paint.

Fun fact. Clippers has more shooters to space the floor than the Jazz.

Last season they've got a whopping 10 players shooting above 40% from deep, and Kawhi wasn't even one of them.

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Take away the small sample size, they've still got Morris, Kennard, Reggie Jackson, Mann, Paul George and Batum who shot way above league average last season. Even Beverley was having his career year shooting the 3 ball.

The whole premise of Clippers beating us in that series was their spacing. Their shooters just couldn't miss from deep. It will be a lot easier for JC to score points in that Clippers system.