It's patently absurd to think Trump didn't 100% cause the insurrection.
Trump has been removed from the Colorado ballot (but not really)
- Thread starter Al-O-Meter
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It's patently absurd to think Trump didn't 100% cause the insurrection.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
It isn't about 'causing'. It is about 'insurrecting'.
Was Trump a narcissistic dumbass who riled up a crowd to an irresponsible degree and then handled the aftermath badly, or did Trump get together with insurrection commanders to go over the plan to insurrect?
fishonjazz
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Ya and judges, lawyers, and legal experts agree.
Also, if trump doesn't do what trump did (im talking about a huge list of things here btw, not just him telling people to show up on the electoral count day and be wild and then his speech at the rally but everything before that day as well) does the attack happen? Certainly not. That is extremely obvious.
Trump even went so far as to try to join in on the attack on the capitol but the secret service didn't allow him to.
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Merry Xmas!
You have other examples? You didn't link to one.
Yeah, it's a big stretch to call that an insurrection.
BLM protesters set Portland police station on fire as riot intensifies
Black Lives Matter militants set fire to a police station in Portland Sunday night during yet another night of violence in the Oregon city. The march on the Portland Police Bureau’s north pre…nypost.com
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Interesting how the cultists try and equate some police station being vandalized by a few yahoos to the organized attempt by the president to stop the verification of an election that he lost at the capitol of this great country. They’re ignoring months of his (illegal) attempts to stop him receiving the boot from office. Seems pretty dishonest. I wonder why they’re so hard to equate these two completely different things? Why are they trying to neuter the term insurrection and equate it to any protest?
Why are they trying so hard to defend a pathetic shell of a human being? Sounds real cultie and weird to me.
Why are they trying so hard to defend a pathetic shell of a human being? Sounds real cultie and weird to me.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
How so? An “insurrection,” by definition, is a “violent uprising against an authority or government.” The BLM riots fit every inch of that.
Not the "against" part. Protesting for government change is an attempt to work with the government.
Sardines
Well-Known Member
The latter. There are many texts to this effect and message board posts after with those commanders (proud boys, 3%ers, Canon etc.) disseminate the message and are building up the magnitude of what they're going to accomplish on behalf of Trump.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
Nice try but burning police stations is not working with the government.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
No there aren't. This is like Fish claiming Trump told the mob to fight. It is stuff lefties have wished for so much that they now believe it actually happened.
Were you raised in a cult? Your sticking to this absurd line is culty AF. I know you're not too dumb to understand what happened so it's gotta be a cult thing.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
ok, so show me these text messages you're so sure exist.
I'm talking about Trump telling the mob to fight. Trump's plan all along was to get the mob to come to Washington and send them over to the Capitol. It's the plan a 6th grade class president would draw up to get the third graders to do his bidding. Trump is a brilliant 6th-grader and his flock are really dumb third-graders.
Sardines
Well-Known Member
I sure. I'll take that because Trump did tell the people listening to him to go there and that they had to fight or they wouldn't have a country anymore. So yeah. Just like what fishonjazz said. The truth.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I’m old enough to remember:
1. Trump folks telling us to “let the people decide” during his first impeachment. We were also told that he couldn’t be tried for anything criminal because he was president and for some reason that offered a shield against any past or present criming.
So we let the people decide and…
2. Trump folks told us to **** off and went to the courts to throw out primarily Biden votes from several swing states. The people decided but Trump folks thought that the courts should decide the outcome.
3. When the courts didn’t go Donald’s way, he attempted an insurrection at the nation’s capitol. He told his cult in December to come on Jan 6 and that it would “be wild.” Gee, what was happening on that day?
4. When his attempt to stop the certification of the election failed and he was impeached for a second time, Trump folks told us to leave him alone. After all, we had to heal and stuff. And he wasn’t president anymore. We had to move on. We were told that if he really committed crimes, that impeachment wasn’t necessary, and that if he had committed crimes either in the past or present, he needed to be tried and convicted in a court of law.
5. So now he’s being tried in a court of law but now Trump folks claim that he can’t be tried because he’s running a campaign. And now we need to heal and move on from Jan 6 so we should just forget about it and let him run for president. If he becomes president, he can pardon himself. If he doesn’t pardon himself, he can’t be convicted because of the presidential shield.
But what happens if he fails again to become president? Can we finally try and convict him? Or do we have to move on and heal and forget about all the criming? And what happens if he loses but attempts yet another insurrection?
The only consistent message we get from the cult these days is:
Orange man good, can do no wrong, can never be held accountable for anything.
And now we’re supposed to forget about all of our laws and norms all to pander to him and his depraved cult following.
1. Trump folks telling us to “let the people decide” during his first impeachment. We were also told that he couldn’t be tried for anything criminal because he was president and for some reason that offered a shield against any past or present criming.
So we let the people decide and…
2. Trump folks told us to **** off and went to the courts to throw out primarily Biden votes from several swing states. The people decided but Trump folks thought that the courts should decide the outcome.
3. When the courts didn’t go Donald’s way, he attempted an insurrection at the nation’s capitol. He told his cult in December to come on Jan 6 and that it would “be wild.” Gee, what was happening on that day?
4. When his attempt to stop the certification of the election failed and he was impeached for a second time, Trump folks told us to leave him alone. After all, we had to heal and stuff. And he wasn’t president anymore. We had to move on. We were told that if he really committed crimes, that impeachment wasn’t necessary, and that if he had committed crimes either in the past or present, he needed to be tried and convicted in a court of law.
5. So now he’s being tried in a court of law but now Trump folks claim that he can’t be tried because he’s running a campaign. And now we need to heal and move on from Jan 6 so we should just forget about it and let him run for president. If he becomes president, he can pardon himself. If he doesn’t pardon himself, he can’t be convicted because of the presidential shield.
But what happens if he fails again to become president? Can we finally try and convict him? Or do we have to move on and heal and forget about all the criming? And what happens if he loses but attempts yet another insurrection?
The only consistent message we get from the cult these days is:
Orange man good, can do no wrong, can never be held accountable for anything.
And now we’re supposed to forget about all of our laws and norms all to pander to him and his depraved cult following.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
THIS
olden_undercover
Well-Known Member
Read: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/interior-watchdog-january-6-report_n_658081d0e4b036ecab461422#
...but I kinda know how you're going to reply to this, and you're totally right that I'm invested in this narrative and believe what's been reported here like a stupid sheep. So. My bad.
I'm just curious, though, what you think all of this does signify. I mean, you're comfortably stating what January 6th was not. And that's fine. What was it, though? What was the text message described in this article between the rally organizer and Mike Lindell-- just two doofuses making up complete fiction? Just a lefty newspaper citing something out of context? C'mon. There was intent behind it, and that intent was informed by something/-one, and what happened in consequence is eerily aligned with the rhetoric coming straight from the top. We may never get a recording or a transcript of Trump stating "March to the Capitol and attack members of Congress in a violent manner in order to sabotage the election, and then I will appear on national television and state 'THIS IS A COUP, EVERYONE! And then I'll drag Joe Biden and our political enemies into the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot all of them.'". But there was never a need for it. The right-wing extremist groups like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers inferred very well what to do-- and had direct affiliation with people in Trump's inner circle, by the way, and were collaborating between groups before showing up-- when Trump said things like "Stand back and stand by," and invited them to join him at the Ellipse rally because it was going to "be wild". What the hell do you think that rhetoric meant to groups like that? Because I can promise you "stand by" was not interpreted as "make some cookies and work on your New Years resolutions". This wasn't a blowhard accidentally riling people up; he knew what he was doing, and he did largely by proxy, and it could not be more clear to anyone willing to look at it honestly. It's dishonest to excuse it as anything but. That's like saying "Well, I know we have a can of gas sitting in the summer sun over there, and over here we have a lighted blowtorch, and then there's this giant fan, and also this loyal pile of extremely dry wood, but I can't control what happens when they get together, which I believe they have the right to do, by the way, and I think they're all very special and should join me at a rally". It's silly and so disingenuous.
But anyway. How about that Hunter Biden mess, huh? Joe Biden; so corrupt. Probably.
I agree with all of this. The question is will a judge or jury determine beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump willfully and knowingly caused an insurrection? Seems like there is more than enough evidence to have a strong argument. The fighting language in his speech is not enough, but if you have enough credible witnesses from his team, etc., that can point to their intent from words, actions, etc., it may be enough. Once all the facts are laid out in court, we will see. I truly hope he is convicted.