Walker Kessler Bench Appreciation Thread

[Saint Cy of JFC]

But they have said he doesn't defend the perimeter, close out, blah blah.
That stat is talking about anywhere and everywhere on the court. Perimeter included.
Sorry

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lmao, the stat does include perimeter, sure, but it's heavily weighted by where he mainly is, at the rim.

This is what I really dont get about some posters. What is the point of being this outwardly stupid?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Like we all agree Walker is an elite rim protector. We dont really need stats to back that up, we all see it.

We can all also see Walker is a bad perimeter defender. We dont need stats to back it up, we all see it.


We dont need to conflate his rim protection outside to things he can't do on the perimeter to make ourselves feel better about Walker's abilities.

But maybe I'm giving some of yall too much credit though. I forget that most NBA fans can't really hold a lot of information in their brains so they become incredibly reactionary to what they want to remember.

 

[fishonjazz]

We can all also see Walker is a bad perimeter defender. We dont need stats to back it up, we all see it.

He isn't bad perimeter defender for a big though. We can all see that. If you can't see that then you just don't know ball.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

He isn't bad perimeter defender for a big though. We can all see that. If you can't see that then you just don't know ball.

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Ok Fish, I will play along with your game.

One a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the worst perimeter defensive big (let's say Jokic) and 10 being the best perimeter defensive big (let's say prime Draymond) where do you think Walker lies? And what bigs do you think he is comparable to with perimeter defensive ability?

 

[Fosto]

Ok Fish, I will play along with your game.

One a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the worst perimeter defensive big (let's say Jokic) and 10 being the best perimeter defensive big (let's say prime Draymond) where do you think Walker lies? And what bigs do you think he is comparable to with perimeter defensive ability?

Green is 6'6 lol

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Green is 6'6 lol

So?

 

[Fosto]

So?

So he's not exactly a big. That's like saying Green had shortcomings because he wouldn't have been effective on someone like Embiid. Apples and oranges.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

So he's not exactly a big. That's like saying Green had shortcomings because he wouldn't have been effective on someone like Embiid. Apples and oranges.

What are you even getting at?

I'm just creating a scale of worst to best perimeter defense among bigs. Draymond played a lot of minutes at the 5. What's the point of being incredibly nitpicky about who I used as an example of a 10?

If I was creating a scale of post defense, Draymond wouldnt be the high end of that scale (or actually he might, idk, Draymond was pretty incredible at all things defense)

And yes, Draymond Green has shortcomings.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

At that stage Walter is a low level Rudy. But Rudy was not good imedialty. He improve a lot years 3 and 4 to reach he level we all know ( except yougjefe ). So i think we have to be patient. I'm only worry one thing about Walter, When you are not very talented, you have to work harder than others. Thats what Rudy doing all his career. Is Walter made on same wood? Time will tell.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

At that stage Walter is a low level Rudy. But Rudy was not good imedialty. He improve a lot years 3 and 4 to reach he level we all know ( except yougjefe ). So i think we have to be patient. I'm only worry one thing about Walter, When you are not very talented, you have to work harder than others. Thats what Rudy doing all his career. Is Walter made on same wood? Time will tell.

I really dont think Walker is Rudy.

He's more like Brook Lopez without post moves or a jump shot, but w/ a quick jump ability.

And for teh people who arent as well versed, Brook Lopez is an incredible paint defender. It's not a diss. Walker jsut doesnt have the vertical athleticism or fire to be Rudy Gobert on either end.

 

[NAOS_pt2]

One thing seems certain: Cy bears no responsibility for creating the hostility he feels around here. Y'all were born hating him. Must be in your genes.

 

[fishonjazz]

Ok Fish, I will play along with your game.

One a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the worst perimeter defensive big (let's say Jokic) and 10 being the best perimeter defensive big (let's say prime Draymond) where do you think Walker lies? And what bigs do you think he is comparable to with perimeter defensive ability?

Ok Fish, I will play along with your game.

One a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the worst perimeter defensive big (let's say Jokic) and 10 being the best perimeter defensive big (let's say prime Draymond) where do you think Walker lies? And what bigs do you think he is comparable to with perimeter defensive ability?

I should have said 7 footers. (That's what I meant. True bigs. Kick it by the rim bigs that have to guard the perimeter occasionally. I wouldn't include Draymond here)

I would say he is a 7. Better than both Lopez bros. Better than jokic. Better than Embiid. Better than Capela. Better than Allen. Better than porzingas. Worse than AD. Worse than gobert.

Thing is I think every single person on that list is a poor option to defend fox, Steph, Lillard, etc on the perimeter which was my point.

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[fishonjazz]

One thing seems certain: Cy bears no responsibility for creating the hostility he feels around here. Y'all were born hating him. Must be in your genes.

Exactly. No responsibility at all. He is always willing to engage without insults, quick to see the other side of an argument, readily admits when he is wrong, and often apologizes in those rare instances when he comes across a bit rude.
The perfect poster to discuss disagreements with really.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

I should have said 7 footers. (That's what I meant. True bigs. Kick it by the rim bigs that have to guard the perimeter occasionally. I wouldn't include Draymond here)

I would say he is a 7. Better than both Lopez bros. Better than jokic. Better than Embiid. Better than Capela. Better than Allen. Better than porzingas. Worse than AD. Worse than gobert.

Thing is I think every single person on that list is a poor option to defend fox, Steph, Lillard, etc on the perimeter which was my point.

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I would say a 4.

 

[fishonjazz]

I would say a 4.

Thats fine.
The real issue i was having with tremendous downside was him saying that kessler can't be considered a great defender until he is a good perimeter defender.

If that's the case then none of those guys can be considered great defenders as none of them are good perimeter defenders. Rudy included. I watched every game Rudy ever played in his time with the jazz. This includes summer league, international play, pre season, playoffs, scrimmages.

He stayed in the paint as often as possible. Rarely defended the perimeter unless he absolutely had to. This was by design of course. His coaches would do anything they could to keep him in the paint where he belongs. Conversely the coaches of the opposition would try their damndest to get him out on the defender guarding a smaller quicker player. Why would Rudy's coach try to prevent him from guarding these little dudes on the perimeter? Why would the opponent try to get him out there? Well that's obvious. Dudes as big as Rudy, Kessler, Lopez, Capela, Embiid, etc are not good at guarding small fast dudes on the perimeter.

So it's stupid to say things like Kessler isn't a great defender because he isn't good at guarding the perimeter. Dudes built like Kessler aren't and never will be. And he rarely needs to. When he does he is adequate.

It would be like saying Marcus smart won't ever be a great defender until he is good at guarding Embiid and jokic in the paint.

It's silly and just tremendous downside throwing some negativity out there and seeing if it will stick.

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[framer]

Conversely, I think Taylor Hendricks has great potential in defending the parameter. . .

 

[fishonjazz]

Conversely, I think Taylor Hendricks has great potential in defending the parameter. . .

Agreed.

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[HermanG]

One thing seems certain: Cy bears no responsibility for creating the hostility he feels around here. Y'all were born hating him. Must be in your genes.

His ability to win 1 vs the world battles in his own head is unrivalled. The world loses every time.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Thats fine.
The real issue i was having with tremendous downside was him saying that kessler can't be considered a great defender until he is a good perimeter defender.

Incorrect. I said you have to be able to defend more effectively inside whole the perimeter area if you want to be a fixture in the NBA All-Defense team or even a DPOY candidate (which is a thing people have been throwing around here).

That is just a fact. Obviously Kessler can't become a "good" perimeter defender, he's massive.

 

[latin jazz]

Walker had a player where he could have gone through Wiseman. Maybe he couldn't dunk it, but he could have forced contact for a foul instead he tried to flail a layup around him that would have made THT blush.

This was in the 4Q right? Rather that creating contact he went to his left for a terrible off-balance layup that didn't touch the rim. I wanted to pull my hair out. You either go strong for a dunk or just shoot your FTs, even at a 50% rate. Def needs to work a lot on this. Also his screens.