fishonjazz
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Will a Jazz player take a knee during the National Anthem this year?
- Thread starter Keefe
- Start date
jazzrule
Well-Known Member
Like the NFL and their players say we need a dialogue on race. And taking a knee as a show of solidarity with Black Lives Matter is what we are dialoguing about. Okay. Let us start by listing… (1) April 2017: Colin Kaepernick donated $25,000 to “Assata's Daughters,” a group named in honor of Assata Shakur, guilty of the 1973 murder of New Jersey State Trooper Werner Foerster. (2) BLM March NYC: “What do we want? Dead COPS! When do we want it? NOW!” A couple days later, a BLM inspired assassin executes 2 NYC cops eating lunch in their patrol car. (3) BLM March Dallas: March in Dallas draws out police. Another BLM inspired (visited their website) assassin executes 5 Dallas cops in the street. (4) April 2016: Yusra Khogali co-founder of the Toronto chapter of Black Lives Matter tweeted: "Plz Allah give me strength to not cuss/kill these men and white folks out here today. Plz Plz Plz." (5) BLM Cofounder Chantelle Helm: "Whites should give up their homes to black people." Her demands are still posted. Okay, I’ve listened. My turn to talk now. So, you want to kill the cops who would stop you from taking my house from me. I say NO! It’s been nice dialoguing with you.
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Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Yes BLM movement is every bit the problem as a any White supremacist group, like them BLM promotes hate just like those other groups. They don't just go after bad cops or racist whites but all cops and whites. One only needs to read the list of 10 demands to whites from the founder or co-founder, whatever it is. If I'm going to denounce the KKK and other like groups, then I'd be wrong in denouncing BLM group. They haven't been bringing awareness to police brutality and injustice they've been fueling it. While it is true there are problems with the racial profiling and blacks not treated on the same level as others as Mexico stated. BLM isn't helping the cause. I'm sure there are good people within the movement. The founders are every bit as radical as the KKK. they have a worthy cause, but the way they go about it is evil
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Yep, already addressed this. I guess you still want to find examples of what you deem a problem. My response is still the same. If you want me to address those each individually I can, but seems pointless. I can also post examples of any major group of people and point to questionable things in their past or from members of that group, that still doesn't invalidate their cause or change their message.
Let's get to the root of this issue if you want.
Do you think racism is happening on any wide scale level in this country? Is racism a problem in our society?
Police brutality is down since BLM started though. Here in Utah the BLM has successfully peacefully protested, met with law enforcement and helped suggest positive change in the form of new policies and training that have been very effective. Incidences have gone down drastically since new training and policies have been adopted. Again people are looking for the bad. All blm wants is equal treatment that is not happening and they are peacefully protesting and working with police agencies all around the US. Yes, there are extremists within the group. Yes, some are very angry and express that anger and maybe take it too far for your comfort level.
It is in no way shape or form the same as the KKK. It is quite the opposite.
jazzrule
Well-Known Member
I want you to respond to each point I made, if you really want us to be the b.s. you are spouting. And yes, I believe BLM is the same crap the KKK is.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Look, I support the players in their peaceful protest, and don't think it in any way shows disrespect to country or flag or whatever, because it's in protest of injustice of principles the flag represents, and I understand that there is racism still today, but putting out a ridiculous list of ten demands for whites to give a family of color their homes, job and other things is a message of oppression and sounds like what a KKK group should do to blacks if they could. It promotes hate and segregation. If there is improvement, it's not because of the leadership of BLM, and no real change will happen as a result of that leadership in promoting hate.
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Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Well first of all you only made 1 point in which I have responded to a couple times. Individuals acting outside of a groups purpose does not invalidate the groups purpose. You can take any group and find outliers.
As far as your individual examples ill address some of them.
#2 and #3: First of all I dont condone shooting or attacking police and neither does BLM. Anyone attacking or killing cops is acting on their own and hurting the BLM message. As far as these two stories go you might want to research them a little more.
http://www.snopes.com/black-lives-matter-protesters-chant-for-dead-cops-now-in-baton-rouge/
This video actually answers a couple of your assertions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=291&v=gGQnJ8kXUko
One of the best points he makes is that BLM is not perfect but that many of the assertions about them misrepresent the movement and use incorrect information. He also points out that BLM is not 1 cohesive group that acts as 1. It has many different chapters that all act independently.
As far as a couple of those go they are fairly complex and I can have a discussion about them but it will take quite awhile to discuss them and their complexity. Especially 1 and 5. But to get there I would have to see where you are at with your understanding of some of the situations and how you feel about things again.
So again lets start with the basics. Do you think racism is happening on any wide scale level in this country? Is racism a problem in our society?
That is very very far from the truth. They are opposite. Maybe you should research a little more about both groups. And not just finding information to confirm what you think.
jazzrule
Well-Known Member
Just go and attend your BLM meetings. There is no changing your mind no matter how many facts I post. You sure have not changed my mind, thats for sure. Nice chatting with you.
I will keep attending, thanks for the encouragement. There has been so many positive things that have been accomplished in SLC already by this group and more room to improve. Its been great to have chatted with you. I hope you keep looking into these issues with an open attitude.
As you say they are different groups that act independently. And do not all have lock step ideology. Some of them are far more aggressive and racist than others. I won't call them the KKK equivalent as a whole but there are groups under the BLM name that fall closer to them than not. Due to them not being an organized group with an organized message I do not support them as a whole. Despite their being obvious problems that they are trying to raise awareness for. I can openly admit that there are some horribly unjust areas like criminal sentencing that must be addressed.
So in short, I am sympathetic to and support the need for change but do not really support the group itself.
Edit: In my geographical area I hold the highly unpopular view that the BLM supporters and Bundy supporters should be natural allies. I'm in the extreme minority there lol.
Did you watch the video? His explanation of the separate chapters is much better than mine. BLM has one message but different groups do have different demands. No violence and hate speech is a part of BLM. There have been people associated with BLM that have done things independent that are outside the message. But most of the negative things associated with BLM have been lies as the Snopes article showed about a bunch of them.
But I understand if you dont support the group, some of the demands make people uncomfortable. There are extreme people within the group and there are angry people. As long as people recognize the injustices and racism that are ingrained in our culture and a real problem for many people than that is great. I hope everyone finds a way to try and make it better. Even if thats on an individual level realizing the stereotypes most of us make and how they can hurt people and trying to recognize those and correct them.
Scorpjazz
Well-Known Member
Lost your mind totally. BLM is the same, they just have more outlets (media, yourself) running disinformation nonstop. They have their 'fringe' "fanatics" that embrace violence and intimidation (which is accepted and even rationalized by the "mainstream" BLM) But go ahead and keep trying to spin turd into gold. Made for an amazing read, wow.
At no point in human history has any people been as free or enjoyed a higher standard of living than those in America right now. ALL of them. Straight, gay, white, black,christian, jew, rich, poor. ALL of them live better than most people ever have, anywhere.
The ILLEGAL ALIENS (not undocumented) living here have a better standard of living than 75% of the world. All of the "minority" groups who are so oppressed are, right now, more free to be who they are and live how they want than they have even been anywhere, ever. Ever. Even attempting some of the things they do in this "oppressive" country would get them killed in a lot of countries.
Simpleton, fake victims everywhere.
At no point in human history has any people been as free or enjoyed a higher standard of living than those in America right now. ALL of them. Straight, gay, white, black,christian, jew, rich, poor. ALL of them live better than most people ever have, anywhere.
The ILLEGAL ALIENS (not undocumented) living here have a better standard of living than 75% of the world. All of the "minority" groups who are so oppressed are, right now, more free to be who they are and live how they want than they have even been anywhere, ever. Ever. Even attempting some of the things they do in this "oppressive" country would get them killed in a lot of countries.
Simpleton, fake victims everywhere.
And none of that does anything to address the improvements we can make to the problems in our own society. America is awesome. We rock. We can still be better and some real problems exist.
DutchJazzer
Banned
jus tlike being claled a nazi. i have been called a nazi so many times. it means nothing to me.
so i start using the word national socialist. is what the nazis where. and try to educate the braoindead or indoctrinnated people about what nazi policies actually where, and maybe just maybe they relaize it is to the left of clinton right about where bernie sits
DutchJazzer
Banned
yeah maybe start by managing and improving your own live. maybe first start by cleaning your habitat, and keeping it clean.
i tell SJW & SJA always to go clean their room!
DutchJazzer
Banned
it got the hashtag FACTS!
so i gues sthose are facts
.thread/ discussion
#Blacklivesmatter, #killallwhites!