We HAVE to make a trade.

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yes, career average who was trending up before last season. Everyone thought last year was outlier bad and he would return to form, in some capacity, not regress. Let's not do revisionist history about our expectations for Crowder this year.

He will be 35% ish by year end. He’s being asked too much I think.

I just wish we would have added a bonafide 40% guy this offseason... at any position really.

This poor shooting could have been predicted based in part because we let go of Jonas who was great when open and Thabo had an outlier year. If we were playing Niang more those moves are okay but Quin doesn’t trust him as much as me.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

No it doesnt. He wants to be in New Orleans where they run a fast paced offense where he doesnt have to play defense.

You're being weird. Niko said he wanted to go to Utah, and there were extensive discussions on both sides (Chicago/Utah) about a potential trade.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

It’s only hindsight if you don’t say it when it happens... we’ve sold multiple second rounders over the last 5 years... not just one... I was critical when those things happened.

I was critical of the Tony Bradley pick when it happened... it made no sense to me. Take a chance on a different type of prospect that has a chance of playing and there might be some value there.

I was a little critical of the Jae trade when it happened... his rep as a shooter is better than his ability... he is fine but DL said we could have had a first for Hood instead. That’s fine again but if you had the first and used the salary to get a Bjelica or Tolliver then the asset base is better.

The team is underperforming no doubt but saying DL doesn’t shoulder some of the blame is ridiculous. He also gets credit for the things he does right. I think Royce can rebound... I think he’s drafted well overall, but dude has certainly left some money on the table.

1. I've said this for years, the bitching about the selling of 2nd round picks is ludicrous when the Jazz value the non-NBA free agent market of seasoned players more. Yes, they don't use a 2nd rounder, but they will sign a guy like Niang to an extremely flexible and cheap deal. You yourself act like you loved Niang, but the Jazz probably don't keep him if they are a team who strictly puts their eggs in "maybe we will randomly hit on a 2nd rounder even though we dont believe in him and there is this much larger pool of talent available over here".

2. The Tony Bradley stuff is warranted, but the guy also hasnt had a chance to prove himself to no fault of his own. The depth chart is too strong in front of him.

3. Crowder has been horrendous, but it's ridiculous to criticize DL for that. Everyone thought he was going to be better than this.

4. Why is DL going to sign long-term money? Why are free agents coming to Utah for 1 year deals over the multiple year deals they got elsewhere? If Bjelica was such a sure fire thing, why was his only offer a minimum contract for the Sixers until Vlade swooped in at the last second?

5. I also want to know who here thought all 3 of Crowder/Exum/O'Neale would regress.

The reality is any move DL would have made this year (sign Bjelica instead of Favors for instance) wouldn't have changed how badly much of the team is playing and there would be incessant blaming of his moves or lack of moves either way.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

You're being weird. Niko said he wanted to go to Utah, and there were extensive discussions on both sides (Chicago/Utah) about a potential trade.

Yes, he did.

That was before he realized playing in an up-tempo system with Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday and for a coach who gives no ***** about defense is actually really great for your numbers.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

At the end of the day a guy like Mirotic is going to follow the money.

 

[Kyoto]

I think joe would be very appealing to a lot of teams, not saying they should trade him but I definitely think there would be teams interested.

My mistake, you're right. Honestly I wouldn't want to trade him

 

[Kyoto]

I'd trade Burks or Exum. I love the idea of a young #1 pick. There's always a risk. Hopefully he can heal up. I believe Utah would be great for him.

We pretty much know what we have in Burks, and its highly unlikely that Exum turns into anything but a mediocre backup, so why not roll the dice with an unknown.

 

[Kyoto]

Honestly Tony Bradley is still an unknown. He is super raw, but if you look at him physically coming out of college compared to today, he has made a huge stride on getting bigger. I haven't seen him play much, but he worked hard on his body over the year, so he has a drive to at least get better.

 

[LoPo]

In my opinion, DL gets rated on what he does before this trade deadline. Think about it.

- He signed Favors to a massive 1 year deal with a massive team option year - perfect for trade bait
- He brought back seasoned vet expiring Thabo - great expiring to help in a bigger deal
- He brought back expiring rim protector Udoh - great expiring to help in a bigger deal
- He signed Neto to a 1 year deal with a team option year - solid addition for a trade
- He signed Exum to a manageable deal - some teams might still like his potential
- We still have expiring bench scorer Burks - great trade piece as an expiring
- We have Rubio who has value as an expiring who can help some team who needs a PG

Neto, Thabo and Udoh are borderline unplayable but we brought them back. Favors is not a good fit as a PF but we brought him back as a huge trade chip. Quin has never had faith in Burks but we haven't traded him yet.

If we don't do a trade before the deadline with all of that expiring money, I have lost all faith in DL.
OUR VALUE IS NOT IN 2019 CAP SPACE - OUR VALUE IS IN 2018-19 EXPIRINGS!

 

[Roy_McAvoy]

Honestly Tony Bradley is still an unknown. He is super raw, but if you look at him physically coming out of college compared to today, he has made a huge stride on getting bigger. I haven't seen him play much, but he worked hard on his body over the year, so he has a drive to at least get better.

I strongly disagree with this. Tony Bradley is what he is. And that is not very good.

 

[Kyoto]

In my opinion, DL gets rated on what he does before this trade deadline. Think about it.

- He signed Favors to a massive 1 year deal with a massive team option year - perfect for trade bait
- He brought back seasoned vet expiring Thabo - great expiring to help in a bigger deal
- He brought back expiring rim protector Udoh - great expiring to help in a bigger deal
- He signed Neto to a 1 year deal with a team option year - solid addition for a trade
- He signed Exum to a manageable deal - some teams might still like his potential
- We still have expiring bench scorer Burks - great trade piece as an expiring
- We have Rubio who has value as an expiring who can help some team who needs a PG

Neto, Thabo and Udoh are borderline unplayable but we brought them back. Favors is not a good fit as a PF but we brought him back as a huge trade chip. Quin has never had faith in Burks but we haven't traded him yet.

If we don't do a trade before the deadline with all of that expiring money, I have lost all faith in DL.
OUR VALUE IS NOT IN 2019 CAP SPACE - OUR VALUE IS IN 2018-19 EXPIRINGS!

Honestly you're right. There are a lot of teams that are more appealing than us that have cap space next year. IF we don't trade some of the dead weight before the deadline then there is something wrong with DL. Up until the last 20 games he has been a really good GM, so I'm confident that there is some plan he has about getting the team better. Honestly though, I'm still a Rubio supporter and I hope we have people that can score around him. Rubio isn't a scorer and never will be, so it's unfair to criticize him for not scoring. We just need people that can put the ball in the hoop around him. Right now we basically have 1 shooter (ingles) in the starting lineup. That is bad for floor spacing.

 

[Kyoto]

I strongly disagree with this. Tony Bradley is what he is. And that is not very good.

You MAY be right, but there are some players that never played in their first couple of years in the league (Hassan Whiteside, Jermaine O'Neal etc) that ended up coming strong after learning and getting better from the bench. I'm not saying TB is nearly as good as those guys, but give him time, they knew he was a project when they drafted him.

Its just like saying Allen is garbage. Sure he isn't that productive right now, but he can shoot (in college). That alone gives him value to someone in the league. I remember when JJ Redick was with Orlando and he was complaining about not getting playing time. They ended up (trading?) him and he is one of the best threats from outside in the league.

What I'm trying to say is, give these young guys time, it's not like anyone is beating Golden State this year.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

1. I've said this for years, the bitching about the selling of 2nd round picks is ludicrous when the Jazz value the non-NBA free agent market of seasoned players more. Yes, they don't use a 2nd rounder, but they will sign a guy like Niang to an extremely flexible and cheap deal. You yourself act like you loved Niang, but the Jazz probably don't keep him if they are a team who strictly puts their eggs in "maybe we will randomly hit on a 2nd rounder even though we dont believe in him and there is this much larger pool of talent available over here".

2. The Tony Bradley stuff is warranted, but the guy also hasnt had a chance to prove himself to no fault of his own. The depth chart is too strong in front of him.

3. Crowder has been horrendous, but it's ridiculous to criticize DL for that. Everyone thought he was going to be better than this.

4. Why is DL going to sign long-term money? Why are free agents coming to Utah for 1 year deals over the multiple year deals they got elsewhere? If Bjelica was such a sure fire thing, why was his only offer a minimum contract for the Sixers until Vlade swooped in at the last second?

5. I also want to know who here thought all 3 of Crowder/Exum/O'Neale would regress.

The reality is any move DL would have made this year (sign Bjelica instead of Favors for instance) wouldn't have changed how badly much of the team is playing and there would be incessant blaming of his moves or lack of moves either way.

1- I love Niang... I like Royce... you can still exercise second round picks or open up roster spots. You can also use the picks on international prospects... Like take a big lumbering center in Germany with one of those picks instead of Tony. It's a smaller talent pool but has more talent. Every year quality guys come out of the second round... hit on 1 of 5 and the 1 can become a huge deal. Not valuing that pool is ignoring an important source of talent, especially to a small market. Where would Denver be without Jokic, Milwaukee without Brogdon, Miami without Richardson... it's rare but it happens. Plenty of guys have shown some flashes from this class... using money to move up rather than selling picks for money could get you an okay asset to use in a trade.

2- DL picked him knowing Rudy was our most established player and that he had Favs on the roster. He also signed Ekpe... I am not blaming Tony... I am blaming DL. We have committed 4 roster spots to guys that are purely centers... centers are abundant and cheap.

3- Whatevs... hes always run hot and cold... I never thought he was a 40% guy... he will be better.

4- Bjelica signed for like half the MLE with Philly... not the minimum. Had we ponied up Kings money you think he picks them over us? Not a sure thing, but a contract that is completely movable if it doesn't work out.

5- I didn't... they share some of the blame too.

Not saying DL needs to make a trade every week like some here think, but saying he is blameless is silly. HE likely doesn't hold himself blameless.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

1- I love Niang... I like Royce... you can still exercise second round picks or open up roster spots. You can also use the picks on international prospects... Like take a big lumbering center in Germany with one of those picks instead of Tony. It's a smaller talent pool but has more talent. Every year quality guys come out of the second round... hit on 1 of 5 and the 1 can become a huge deal. Not valuing that pool is ignoring an important source of talent, especially to a small market. Where would Denver be without Jokic, Milwaukee without Brogdon, Miami without Richardson... it's rare but it happens. Plenty of guys have shown some flashes from this class... using money to move up rather than selling picks for money could get you an okay asset to use in a trade.

2- DL picked him knowing Rudy was our most established player and that he had Favs on the roster. He also signed Ekpe... I am not blaming Tony... I am blaming DL. We have committed 4 roster spots to guys that are purely centers... centers are abundant and cheap.

3- Whatevs... hes always run hot and cold... I never thought he was a 40% guy... he will be better.

4- Bjelica signed for like half the MLE with Philly... not the minimum. Had we ponied up Kings money you think he picks them over us? Not a sure thing, but a contract that is completely movable if it doesn't work out.

5- I didn't... they share some of the blame too.

Not saying DL needs to make a trade every week like some here think, but saying he is blameless is silly. HE likely doesn't hold himself blameless.

The 2nd round doesnt have more talent then undrafted free agents and Non-NBA free agents. It's not close, at least not in the 50's.

No one, including DL, thought Favors was going to be on the roster this year until the 2018 starting lineup resurgence.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

And yeah, DL is blameless this year until we get more we get to 2019 free agency. I don't want to see any of you crybabies praise him then when he pulls off the god moves.

 

[LoPo]

And yeah, DL is blameless this year until we get more we get to 2019 free agency. I don't want to see any of you crybabies praise him then when he pulls off the god moves.

I want you to list 3 examples of moves you consider "God" moves.

 

[LoPo]

And yeah, DL is blameless this year until we get more we get to 2019 free agency. I don't want to see any of you crybabies praise him then when he pulls off the god moves.

Please send us some of those "God" move ideas.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I want you to list 3 examples of moves you consider "God" moves.

How he acquired the core of this team (Mitchell, Gobert, Ingles)?

 

[LoPo]

How he acquired the core of this team (Mitchell, Gobert, Ingles)?

Cy said: And yeah, DL is blameless this year until we get more we get to 2019 free agency. I don't want to see any of you crybabies praise him then when he pulls off the god moves.

We got Mitchell and Gobert through the draft. We got Ingles through great scouting and waivers not necessarily through free agency.

But Cy clearly says he is talking about 2019 free agency. Cy is saying DL will pull off "God" moves. I honestly want to know who he is thinking in 2019 free agency. I want to know who is in the realm of possibility. I am intrigued.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

And yeah, DL is blameless this year until we get more we get to 2019 free agency. I don't want to see any of you crybabies praise him then when he pulls off the god moves.

Why does it have to be one or the other... I've praised him on the good moves and been skeptical on other moves... some worked some didn't. It's kind of how life works... there is some good and some bad.

DL would not hold himself blameless... a certain amount of blame can be allocated to him. I don't understand why you see him as infallible.